Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

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I know it's in here somewhere; but I can't find it. If I am interested in building a DIY ultrasonic cleaner; what frequency and power am I looking for? Assuming the manufacturer even gives specs.
 
I know it's in here somewhere; but I can't find it. If I am interested in building a DIY ultrasonic cleaner; what frequency and power am I looking for? Assuming the manufacturer even gives specs.
I'm no expert but mine runs at 60kHz. You may want to try other threads as this one is about the cleaning solutions, not methods. Or try some of these:
Lots of info here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/276858-diy-ultrasonic-record-cleaner-frequency.html

and: http://sanfranciscoaudiophilesociet...ons-about-cleaning-lp-records-ultrasonically/
 
Here's a quick reference to where I'm getting my supplies (also, listed for confirmation that I'm getting the right stuff):

Hepastat 256 - https://www.quill.com/brighton-prof...r-handy-mix-dilutable-64-oz/cbs/51805647.html
EDTA - https://www.amazon.com/MakingCosmet...F8&qid=1522762832&sr=8-8&keywords=edta+powder
Triton X-100 - https://www.amazon.com/Triton-X-100...8&qid=1522762867&sr=1-4&keywords=triton+x-100
ISO - I'll go get it at my local Walgreens
Distilled Water - I'll go get it at my local Walgreens

And then I'll use Nathan's spreadsheet referenced in #1624 (but use 1/2 of the concentration because I'll try this in my Klaudio ultrasonic machine).

This is just a summary for those who arrive to the party later than I. :)

Thanks for this. After reading about 20 pages I was in need of a summary on this all.

Did you try to source any of these materials locally? Like a chemical or cleaning/janitorial supply?
 
For making small batches for hand/vac washing here's the formula I use. I'm posting because the link to nrenter's Excel sheet doesn't work for me anymore.

BATCH 500.00 ml
HepaStat 256 1.00 ml
Triton X-100 1.40 ml
IPA 91% 25.00 ml
DH20 472.60 ml
TOTAL 500.00 ml
Concentrate ml 27.40 ml
Concentrate Oz 0.93 oz
 
So I’m rethinking the concentration in my Klaudio US machine. The records are quieter, but I’m seeing more gunk on my stylus. Mind you, I’m not doing a vacuum rinse step.
 
I know it's in here somewhere; but I can't find it. If I am interested in building a DIY ultrasonic cleaner; what frequency and power am I looking for? Assuming the manufacturer even gives specs.
Some people swear by the 60 or 80 kHz machines but after doing the math on bubble size on the 40 kHz machine the bubbles are small enough to get into the smallest record grooves and 40 khz bubbles have more energy than the 60 or 80 kHz bubbles.
 
Possibly another option for ultrasonic:

https://sonicsoak.com

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I'm assuming the 50,000 equals a 50kHz transducer. If you're not worried about the label you could just submerge the record completely and forget about spinning.
 
Possibly another option for ultrasonic:

https://sonicsoak.com

View attachment 1184028

I'm assuming the 50,000 equals a 50kHz transducer. If you're not worried about the label you could just submerge the record completely and forget about spinning.
I wouldn't buy it, purely on the fact that it keeps trying to redirect me to indigogo's sign up page (I hope they're listening:mad:).

Other than that, it reminds of an expensive, high tech version of an electric toothbrush. The toothbrush works better than you'd think....
 
I wouldn't buy it, purely on the fact that it keeps trying to redirect me to indigogo's sign up page (I hope they're listening:mad:).

Other than that, it reminds of an expensive, high tech version of an electric toothbrush. The toothbrush works better than you'd think....

Yeah I thought that was annoying too...but...concept wise it's interesting and should be enough to clean a record if it can clean the other items they claim it can.
 
Yeah I thought that was annoying too...but...concept wise it's interesting and should be enough to clean a record if it can clean the other items they claim it can.
It should to some degree. I'd be the first to try it....when it's as cheap as a toothbrush.:biggrin:

What these ads never tell you, is how it doesn't work....:bigok:
 
Thanks all, for contributing.

Very good stuff!

I'm having a tough time finding Hepastat 256 in the Toronto area. Will any quat do? I found Epquat by Lawrason local to me which apparantly does all the same germ/virus/bacteria killing that Hepastat does.

Would Epquat be ok, and what are the differences if anyone knows?

Thanks guys!
 
I've put together a formulation spreadsheet with the most popular ingredients (triton, hep, edta, alcohol) and thought you guys might like it. I've created stock versions with two formulation strategies.

Note, i'm using the edta molar mass from Making Cosmetics at 416g/mol. I've seen other quotes at 380g or so but the 416g matches that of the CAS number specced on a few different sites. Can any of the chemists comment on this?

1. No alcohol. Just enough extra water added to the concentrate to make measurement easy. 2 tbsp or 30 ml per gallon of water yields approximately .26% Triton, .2% hepastat, and 5mM EDTA. 8 ml to 1L water yields nearly but not exactly the same, but is the closest round ml.

2. 5% Alcohol. For simplicity, take 1L alcohol amd discard 75 ml. Add cleaning chemicals in amounts shown. This makes 1L of concentrate. This is a higher volume mix, so throw out 60 ml from 1 liter of water and replace with alcohol solution. This yields 5% iso, .24% triton, and .21% hepastat. For a gallon do the same but discard and replace 225 ml. The idea with throwing out the extra volume of water/alcohol is to be able to use the existing container for storage and mixing. This isn't necessary for the small volumes added using method 1.

The sheet is also "programmed" so that if you want to replace the water in the concentrate with a small amount of iso and add the iso separately you can do that. I didn't make anything super automatic as far as getting to the desired concentration, I wanted to be able to fiddle with the numbers manually to see what I could come up with using easily measured quantities even if the amounts aren't exactly perfect in the final solution.

The exact ratios on these two mixes is not identical, I fudged them to make the concentrates easy to measure out. Shouldn't be noticeable in practice.

Link to spreadsheets below:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/58rh0s1816nt3j5/Cleaning Solution.zip?dl=0

There's one sheet for each recipe for making up 1 gallon and 1L of solution, so four sheets total. Green are inputs, yellow are calculated outputs. Feel free to tweak the numbers to get the final solution you want!

Cheers
Nathan

This sheet seems to be down. Any chance you can repost?
 
Hello
New to this forum but have finally read through the thread. Only taken about a month !
I'm in the UK so getting hold of some ingredients will be tricky.
Can some-one tell me if
Benzalkonium Chloride - Alkyl Dimethyl Benzyl Ammonium Chloride - BAC 50
is a suitable quat ? I've sourced some Triton, IPA and EDTA but the quat is proving difficult.

Does anyone know if dissolving the Triton in alcohol first affects the Micelle structure and performance ? It goes against my nature to think that something which takes ages to form a micellar solution will be the same if done quickly ? I've found however that if you agitate Triton in 10x vol water in an ultrasonic bath it dissolves in 5 minutes.

 
I'm trying to make some concentrate using the following quantities:

400mL 91% Isopropyl Alcohol
14mL Hepastate 256
18mL Triton X-100
7g of Tetrasodium EDTA

The EDTA won't seem to dissolve no matter how much I shake and shake.

I was planning to add 45mL of this concentrate to 700mL of RO/DI water to make batches of general purpose cleaner for my vacuum style RCM.

Anyone else have this problem or have any ideas how to deal with it? Do I need to add some RO/DI to my concentrate to dissolve the EDTA and redo my math?
 
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