anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

I have three S910Es, all genuine-original. One is obviously used and has a mildly kinked cantilever tube. The other two turn out to be NOS Astatic-packaged. They're all diasas. I'm playing one of the "Astatics" at 1.35g in a 5000LAC body which has that in-between inductance of ~270mH (slightly high for 4000D, slightly low for later 66 clones), and it sounds like an S912E-- flat response; strong but not prominent bass; clean, extended top end without harshness; notably good soundstage.
 
Tried different preamps but I’m finding the aftermarket 239 PDE still too bright... but the black original Empire sounds great and tames down that harsh treble on mine.

I’m finding it to be very sensitive to set up and vtf, vta (angle). Also sensitive to anti skate with tracking and inner grove distortion. My aftermarket took a long time to break in..

But once mine was set up and broken in, The big bass, large dynamics, and soundstage or the main attributes to the 66. It sounded really good. I could use it for everything except bad records.

My 2000z however was never this finicky, and always seem to produce great results with just minimum work to VTF no matter the stylus.

Hopefully you can get it set up and sounding better.. maybe try a different stylus?

You might buy a hand full of small capacitors, in the 50-200pF range, and try different ones across your phono input. It is easy to eliminate both of them with a DPDT toggle switch.
 
I am using a genuine Empire 239-PDE (white) in my 66 clone (999-II MEX).

Sounds great today, still big and dynamic, when playing known good recordings.

Still not at all forgiving to lesser recordings. I guess that is not unlike some other higher quality cartridges.

Same here but I have the white 239 Jico. The genuine Empire black 239 I have sounds better with just about any record. Don’t know why really but maybe you could try something else to see?
 
b08: Sounds like you're describing the typical throwback sound of an earlier generation of cartridges, though for some "lesser" styli it carries through to the following generation. I hear the kind of sound you're describing in my red S906 (239-D7), but it's not what I hear in my S912E (239-PDE purple). I'll poke around and see if I have an intact S910E.

I think you’re correct Walt. So in summary when the 999-II MEX w/ white 239- PDE has a good good recording it is really great. It is just not consistent enough to be a daily driver for me, but the 2000e/III with 237-DET is. The later is the sound of Empire that I seem to remember as a teenage when I save my dollars for a 2000e I.

I will come back to the Empires in while. I just mounted an Audio Technica AT-35E LOMC into my SUT. This is a great sounding MC and it has a replaceable stylus that are still available.

Seems like I rotate carts every few weeks. Why not? :trebon:
 
We're all ecumenical enough here to tolerate a rotary Audio-Technifan (don't tell nobody, but I'm one too). While I'm puzzled by the sound you report from your S910E, there's always the possibility that if it's an early one ("pignose"), it might sound different from mine (late all-plastic flipper style). We don't know the S910E's complete backstory yet. All I can say is that mine doesn't have the throwback sound, which puts it more or less in line with its white predecessors 888TE and 999TE/X.
 
My 2000z however was never this finicky, and always seem to produce great results with just minimum work to VTF no matter the stylus.

DR, Thank you for your persistent love/post of your 2000Z. I had taken my Z out of rotation in lieu of listening to my 999VX/E and 440D. I think sometimes when we hear something exceptional, we kinda get stuck there, ignoring the other treasures we may possess, and the 2000Z is definitely such a treasure.

I mounted mine back up and was instantly reminded of it's beautiful separation and "Wide Open" presentation. This cartridge has the ability to grab even the slightest nuances of music from any LP. So again, thank you for your persistence, because here again, I'm stuck on my 2000Z. ( replaced the 440D, never the 999VE/X )

And Walt, I've been called a lot of things in my life, but an "Audio-Technifan" ain't one of them...........LOL!
( But hey, What ever "floats your boat" or "trips your trigger", I say)
 
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Moving to a new home. Will have to set up everything soon. I know I seem to rave about the 2000Z. In my defense, I haven’t found anything else in a MM or MI that is balanced better in the price range.

Yes there are some that are more dynamic, and some that have more bass or vocals. But I love knowing that swapping out for 2000Z great sound is coming my way with out too much treble or bass. Just down to listening and enjoying.
 
DR, Thank you for your persistent love/post of your 2000Z. I had taken my Z out of rotation in lieu of listening to my 999VX/E and 440D. I think sometimes when we hear something exceptional, we kinda get stuck there, ignoring the other treasures we may possess, and the 2000Z is definitely such a treasure.

I mounted mine back up and was instantly reminded of it's beautiful separation and "Wide Open" presentation. This cartridge has the ability to grab even the slightest nuances of music from any LP. So again, thank you for your persistence, because here again, I'm stuck on my 2000Z. ( replaced the 440D, never the 999VE/X )

And Walt, I've been called a lot of things in my life, but an "Audio-Technifan" ain't one of them...........LOL!
( But hey, What ever "floats your boat" or "trips your trigger", I say)

What does your 999 VE/X sound like? Must be nice as it is being talked about a lot.
 
What does your 999 VE/X sound like? Must be nice as it is being talked about a lot

DR, IMHO the 999VE/X has many of the same characteristics as the Z, but not quite as dynamic/loud. It's a more subtle/richer tone than the Z, to my ears anyway.
It still possesses the same balance,separation and an open stage as the Z , it just does it a little "smoooother".........
Actually, it's hard for me to explain, but I absolutely love the sound of it.

Imagine my surprise when I opened the box

WOW,ear4audio
That is one super clean 999VE. It looks like it was kept in a "sealed time capsule". If it sounds as good as it looks......it must be one "kick-butt" cartridge.
Congrats ! on your new acquisition.
 
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By the way, do we know whether the 999VE is electrically different from the physically similar (identical) 888 series?
I have an 888E. The inductance and resistance numbers are very different. I averaged the numbers between the 2 channels:
888: Inductance 495 mH. Resistance 625 ohms
999: Inductance 625 mH. Resistance 1300 ohms
Even though the stylus grip on the 888 is significantly smaller than the 999, the two are interchangeable.
 
...do we know whether the 999VE is electrically different from the physically similar (identical) 888 series?
Yes, it is. A few people have measured their 999VEs and found its channels to average ~700mH, which makes it the highest-inductance version of that aardvarkian family. By the way, the succeeding but short-lived top model, the 1000ZE, appears to have used the same coils. The top 888s have inductance ~400mH; from the 888PE downward, it tweaks upward slightly to ~520mH.
 
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I have an 888E. The inductance and resistance numbers are very different. I averaged the numbers between the 2 channels:
888: Inductance 495 mH. Resistance 625 ohms
999: Inductance 625 mH. Resistance 1300 ohms
Even though the stylus grip on the 888 is significantly smaller than the 999, the two are interchangeable.

Is your 888E stylus original Empire or aftermarket? Judging from your photo, my S888SE-ERD liiks to be the same size as your S999VE-ERD. Is it from the appropriate stylus group? The Pfanstiehl 232 group of styli cover the 888 through 888VE and the 999VE so the grips ought to be the same save for color. There are also other stylus groups, 230, 253 and 254, which most likely fit the 888E and may have smaller grips.

My 888TE, fitted with the aforementioned S888SE-ERD,comes in slightly in excess of 400 mH, so it's consistent with Walt's information above.
 
Is your 888E stylus original Empire or aftermarket? Judging from your photo, my S888SE-ERD liiks to be the same size as your S999VE-ERD. Is it from the appropriate stylus group? The Pfanstiehl 232 group of styli cover the 888 through 888VE and the 999VE so the grips ought to be the same save for color. There are also other stylus groups, 230, 253 and 254, which most likely fit the 888E and may have smaller grips.

My 888TE, fitted with the aforementioned S888SE-ERD,comes in slightly in excess of 400 mH, so it's consistent with Walt's information above.
My stylus for the 888 must be a generic since it doesn't have any "Empire" stamp.
ESTYLI-2.jpg
ESTYLI-1.jpg
ESTYLI-3.jpg
 
That looks like an 880 stylus stylus.

Correction. It would appear that there are two different types of stylus for the 888 Series. Yours may be for the earlier series with the metal mounting ears or it may be that yours may is an aftermarket version.

This Pickupnaalden.com page shoes both types. All those resembling your brown stylus are aftermarket. All those that resemble your purple stylus are original Empire.
 
The photo on the 999VE box sure looks like the brown one aside from the color, and no gold stamp?

Good catch. The cartridge in the picture is the early type with metal ears while the actual one in the box has the later plastic mount so it looks like the two types of stylus are indeed early vs. late.
 
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