anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

I had a look at link and there seems not to be specs of the stylus ie what tip the different ones have?
Also found this link, any of these any good?
https://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/cat...ype=MfgNameNeedles&MfgName=Empire&Categories=
Cheers
Chris

The specs are in the attached file.

The V-M Audio Enthusiasts is a really good source but with specific regard to the 232 (888) styli, he's selling a mix of original and aftermarket. As it says on the web page, "232 needles may or may not be products of Empire Scientific". When I asked him to find me an original, he declined.
 

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I hope I'm wrong about this, but as far as I know, the only way to tell if the earliest style of 232s, ones that look like the one on the left, are real Empires...
1.JPG 5.jpg
...is to compare them visually to known-real examples, assuming verifiable reals could be found. Gary probably doesn't have that ability, but I'll bet we could do it collectively here. The stylus on the right (I've nicknamed this later style "arrowhead") has what Gary calls a "hot stamp", and because of this it can be easily identified as a real 232-D7 stylus.
The one on the left, with its perfectly flat sides, is the original style, plain and unlabeled.
 
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Its not in rotation yet! Have read some other reviews on this combo with happy results and that's why I ordered it. I believe in at least trying to equal the original stylus or putting a better ones like the Vividline for better performance than original. Trying to split hairs on a $12-25 stylus from VM is fine for some-but its not for me. I hope I don't end up eating my words here...
 
Its not in rotation yet! Have read some other reviews on this combo with happy results and that's why I ordered it. Trying to split hairs on a $12-25 stylus from VM is fine for some-but its not for me. I hope I don't end up eating my words here...

It’s all good. I’m eating humble pie about 1/2 the time.
 
I also own the LTD 400 & 450 carts I am thinking of putting a Jico 3x7 elliptical on the 400 and the Vividline on the 450 just to do a little sound comparison experiment. I started a thread on this a never got one response.
 
I also own the LTD 400 & 450 carts I am thinking of putting a Jico 3x7 elliptical on the 400 and the Vividline on the 450 just to do a little sound comparison experiment. I started a thread on this a never got one response.

Everyone wants it all in this Giant cumbersome Empire thread... but it’s nice to go visit this and find what you want.. I’m curious about how they will compare. Cart wise I don’t see anything huge between the chunky types unless they are the upper level models.. it’s just nice to find decent styli for whatever model is out there and available.

You never know what you will find out there with original or aftermarket.
I’m impressed with the one aftermarket conical that was available for the 2000Z.
 
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The specs are in the attached file.

The V-M Audio Enthusiasts is a really good source but with specific regard to the 232 (888) styli, he's selling a mix of original and aftermarket. As it says on the web page, "232 needles may or may not be products of Empire Scientific". When I asked him to find me an original, he declined.

You must have not asked nicely enough?
 
You must have not asked nicely enough?

Hmmm, well........

It was apparently more difficult a proposition than I initially thought. I originally believed it was a simple matter of looking for a stylus with the Empire logo stamped on it.

So, after being "rebuffed" by Gary, I ordered a NOS S888SE-ERD from PUN and I like it very much. But I eventually started thinking about it again and it occurred to me that I'd never seen a pink, white, blue, or green generic for the 888 cartridges. So, I reasoned, if that's true and if I ordered one of those colors from Gary, it would of necessity be the real deal. So, in a recent order from Gary, I added an 232-SDE, specifying pink as the first choice and blue as the second. (He's out of white.)

I figured that my theory would be confirmed if the stylus I received had the Empire logo on it. However, when I got the stylus yesterday, a pink one, it was unmarked so I figured it was a generic. But it had a very slender cantilever (with no dot), much slenderer and also shorter than the one on my S888SE-ERD so I didn't know what I had here.

This morning I put it under the microscope and what I saw brightened my mood considerably. The stylus is a hand polished nude elliptical! This can't be a generic. Nobody puts that much work and that much quality into generics. So, my supposition that all the 888 styli have the logo stamped into them (as was the case with the few original styli I've seen) is almost certainly wrong. Some, perhaps the earliest ones, may be unmarked.

So, this would explain Gary's disclaimer that "232 needles may or may not be products of Empire Scientific" and his reluctance to sift through them to find an original. It's just too difficult to distinguish NOS from generic with these. But I have hope for my color theory. It seems to have worked out in this case.
 
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Okay, now I'm confused. These pictures are from a listing currently on eBay. As you can see, the cantilever is tapered. (Mine is not.) It's also fatter and longer. And in the second photo you can see that it has the Empire logo on it. So, what do I have here? A nude hand polished elliptical generic? Or did Empire at some point completely change the way they made the S888VE-ERD?

s-l1600.jpg


s-l1600.jpg
 
Okay, now I'm confused. These pictures are from a listing currently on eBay. As you can see, the cantilever is tapered. (Mine is not.) It's also fatter and longer. And in the second photo you can see that it has the Empire logo on it. So, what do I have here? A nude hand polished elliptical generic? Or did Empire at some point completely change the way they made the S888VE-ERD?

s-l1600.jpg


s-l1600.jpg

Someone has to know, or at least I think someone should, but who made Empire styli early on in the 60s and early 70s? In house? USA? Japan or Swiss?

Early comment about the short cantilever, short stubby has been in my experience genuine Empire for 66 models and blobs; and the long tapered for them were aftermarket from Japan.

More importantly, how do they sound?
 
My brain hurts!

I suppose what I have is a gin-you-whine S888VE-ERD and that Merlin is selling an S888VEII-ERD (if such exists).

I'm giving the S888SE-ERD a run now to establish a base line before I try Pinkie. Will report.


Some Sapphire Bombay Gin will definitely improve any stylus sound.. ask me how I know..

I’m just jealous of all the beautiful Empire carts that you have to roll! Well let us know how it turns out!
 
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