Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Thanks Zilch.. I forgot all about that being posted to me...

A question about it... on the L-Pads. I take it those are both 8ohm pads? as opposed to the original design being 35 ohm?

Also, I see the one pad has been removed from the woofer, OK, but I see it has been moved to the HF side, so there are two pads on the HF side.. Also, LP2 has me confused on exactly what kind it is, since it's showing a resistor on two sides, not just one like the typical L-pad symbol. What does each pad do in this case?

OH, and also, since I've already gone all out for drivers, would I benefit by using oil caps instead of regular caps?

OH, and last question... 100watt l-pads?
L-pads consist of two potentiometers internally wired as reciprocal rheostats. Altec and I used one leg of an 8-Ohm one for the 35-Ohm resistor.

Yes, 100W ones.

As I said, this is a start. You can also buy a pair of used M19 crossovers, or spend much more buying the GPA or Iconic ones, which I doubt have my mod to make them biampable; they're not real helpful with respect to the design details, but the Iconic would appear to be a clone of the original. As I've said, I'll also be doing a variant of the eWave crossover for this driver combo, so proceed accordingly.

If you don't have the requisite expertise to program DCX for this, used M19 XOs are an expedient way to get up and running which can be resold if/when another solution is developed. There's a half-dozen members working with this combo, now, so we will get there. I can't do all of this at once, is all.... ;)
 
LOL.. I understand Zilch... I just need to get into the park. You've gotten me there now and I really appreciate it a lot..

I'm just trying to figure out what each l-pad does in the HF.. one changes timing, the other changes wattage?

I have no problem spending good money to build really high end crossovers for this, so long as this design and schematic will be about as close to perfect as I could get without having to create a new design...

So I would be doing better if I bought the better coils and oil caps correct?
 
Is there some way of "seeing" the forward axis in these shots, or was this ascertained by other measurment?
Inverse null, which I show in all of the XO plots, occurs at the foward axis, and I usually note where that occurs relative to the waveguide axis at a stated measuring distance.

Then, in the vertical polar maps, the response measurement on that axis becomes the reference, the red curve, and measurements are taken in 5° increments above and below there, out to +/- 20°, and overlaid, so as to show the forward lobe.

Earlier, I used the waveguide axis as the reference to figure out how systems behave and where the nulls occurred, so there may be some variance as to the reference in comparing vertical maps, but now, my standard is the forward axis, unless otherwise stated, so we can see if the nulls occur symmetrically about that reference.

I started from scratch and developed the protocol in this thread over the last two months, so you've witnessed its evolution into a design tool that anyone can implement right here. The first example of it appears in the DIY audio forum over a year ago. There are more snazzy ways to show this data in various measurement packages, as well.

I have no problem spending good money to build really high end crossovers for this, so long as this design and schematic will be about as close to perfect as I could get without having to create a new design...?
You are not hearing me, Simi. I'm saying this is merely an expedient for getting you up and running, and that you should just buy a pair of used M19 crossovers as a start for now.... :yes:

530029/9283=57.0967​
 
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I never see many of those crossovers for sale, and I really don't want to wait and wait and wait for a pair to finally come up, and then have to get in a bidding war to get them...

Just like the single pair on the bay now for over $200, with 4 days left, and 16 bids... just not in my interest.. I'll build mine before I go that route..
 
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The DQ-10waves* (or whatever we're calling them) sound awesome. They're running but need hours of work to make them complete. I'm really pleased with the sound.

* DQ-10 cabs/refoamed OLA woofers/DE250/QSC

Using the basic crossover on that, or one of the variations?

russellc
 
I'm gonna have to have some way to control the horn on this... it's gonna have to have L-pads.. the horn is 118db, and the woofer is 97... just too big a difference there..

Make sure they are both being measured the same. Even in the PE listings some are rated 1W/1m, while some say 2.83V/1m so make sur everything is on the same page. Also, compensation to flatten the response will shave some of that efficiency down.

Cant wait to see this project finished with complete crossover! a little more expensive, but really still reasonable when compared to the competition.:yes:

Wave on, dude!
russellc
 
LOL.. I understand Zilch... I just need to get into the park. You've gotten me there now and I really appreciate it a lot..

I'm just trying to figure out what each l-pad does in the HF.. one changes timing, the other changes wattage?

I have no problem spending good money to build really high end crossovers for this, so long as this design and schematic will be about as close to perfect as I could get without having to create a new design...

So I would be doing better if I bought the better coils and oil caps correct?

think of the Altec t-filter for compensation. The m19 works the same way, just one of the resistors in the T filter is adjustable. Allows you to dial in the compensation.

Russellc
 
I never see many of those crossovers for sale, and I really don't want to wait and wait and wait for a pair to finally come up, and then have to get in a bidding war to get them...

Just like the single pair on the bay now for over $200, with 4 days left, and 16 bids... just not in my interest.. I'll build mine before I go that route..

Agreed. they are a good prototyping tool for these 2-ways with compression drivers, I need to build a set of these. Might not have the resale value that the original enjoys, but I might get to use wire nuts!



Russellc
 
Agreed. they are a good prototyping tool for these 2-ways with compression drivers, I need to build a set of these. Might not have the resale value that the original enjoys, but I might get to use wire nuts!



Russellc

I would have to use wire nuts as well because I can not find Zilch nutz anywhere.:D

It would be a good "Tool" to have for prototyping.:yes:
 
You kick ass Zilch.. that list saved me a lot of adding and hunting for the caps.. I found oil caps, but after I started adding up the prices.. WOW..

Also, you do have R3 missing on the list.. 2ohm SKU 005-2 BTW.. I used all 005 instead of the 004... I liked the 1% instead of the 2% tolerance, It was only a buck or two more..
 
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Also, you do have R3 missing on the list.. 2ohm SKU 005-2 BTW.. I used all 005 instead of the 004... I liked the 1% instead of the 2% tolerance, It was only a buck or two more..
Thanks, Simi, I'll fix that (if I can remember how I did it). ;)

Zilch , can a Linkwitz riley 3k xover be used instead of the butterworth version? ( for the D220ti Econowave setup)
Neither the topology nor the component values match "textbook." Wayne uses 3rd order in the highpass and optionally, a Zobel on the woofer, as posted in his Pi-Speaker forum circuit for 3-Pi. Thus far, I've always fallen back on Jack's eWave circuit with the best result.

I have posted an EconoWave PCD Challenge over on the PE Tech Talk forum:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=215536

:D
 
Was this directed to me? If so, I've already done that. Happy with the results. Currently sealed, which models to a -3dB of 47 Hz. Will be venting w/ a 2x2 vent gives box tuning of 29 Hz w/ a -3dB of 36Hz. Port resonance at 2000Hz.

Frankly, I don't quite understand what we're getting at w/ the stuff Zilch is doing, in a practical sense. What diiferences in sound are we hearing?

As cheap as they are, may as well grab a pair of the DC 300 and try them in the Mach box?

russellc
 
Zilch, I was looking at your variation of the M19 Crossover and read that you have a mod that allows it to be used bi-amping. Could you give me a push in the right direction so I can read what it requires or am I missing something I dont see or understand?
 
Zilch, I was looking at your variation of the M19 Crossover and read that you have a mod that allows it to be used bi-amping. Could you give me a push in the right direction so I can read what it requires or am I missing something I dont see or understand?

I'll second this..
 
I'll second this..

The original design had the HF fed off AFTER some component in the LF "side" of things. Now you can separate the HF and LF right at the input terminals, just use two sets of terminals... The ewave crossover is the same, at the input you have two paths that can be taken apart and fed from two full-range amps.
 
OK... I see it.. I had kind of thought that, but I wasn't positive... This will work really perfectly for me since I also ordered bi-ampable terminal cups for this project..

I just got the front baffle pulled from one of my cabs and laid everything out and measured it.. WOW.. talk about tight...

If it wasn't for the fact the woofer mounts to the rear, and the horn on the front, it wouldn't work at all without having to grind out part og my horns, and I REALLY didn't want to do that..

It's gonna look pretty sweet though!!!
 
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