Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

I think I'll go and give those Barzilays another look when I get off work. I'm not 100% thats what they are, but they have the same grills and look like them.

Can I expect these to go lower than the New Large Advent woofers? Right now they don't. I didn't catch the passive step compensation approach you mention so I'll go back and looksy some more.

Thanks.
 
I saw that post Zilch. :)

"Head and shoulders better than most diffraction horns...."

Not bad for $30 for the pair.
 
KDT, Kapplite 3012LF Woofer, QSC Waveguide, DE250 Driver

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Vertical Polar Map, +/- 20° from forward axis, in 5° increments:

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My interpretation of the waterfalls is they look good. Are the 4.6 and 2k blooms significant? They appear to be, what, 20 dB down?
My eyes need tweaking.
 
My interpretation of the waterfalls is they look good. Are the 4.6 and 2k blooms significant? They appear to be, what, 20 dB down?
They're 10 dB down by 2 ms. At -20 db, all but inaudible, though those are likely real resonances somewhere in the system.

[I'll remove the pipe insulation to see if it's that buzzing. :tongue: ]


Edit: We can see why the QSC is difficult; I have it at the minimum posssible c/c distance with a 12" woofer, flange tucked behind with rear mounting, and with any displacement from the forward axis, the vertical nulls influence the reponse. Looks like it's good (-6 db) +15° to -10° from the midpoint between the waveguide and woofer.

I struggled to aim the forward axis higher, but couldn't get that to happen without making a kludge of the crossover. Turns out, it's asymmetric in the desired direction (up) anyhow.... :thmbsp:
 
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I went and got the Barzilay cabinets. The inside dimensions measure to be 5.1 cubic feet. I think that is pretty good for these. I do have a question, the existing woofer hole is 13.5 inches and that is about the width of the actual cone and a little of the accordian surround deal.

Do I need to make that hole bigger? I would have to go a half inch around to make that the woofer could drop in from the other side. But I could mount it on the inside. I think I know the answer, but it would be nice if I was told that the easy way would be fine.

This thing is almost all ready to go. I'm feeling pretty lucky to have scored these right after the woofers.
 
There are advantages to rear mounting the woofers with EconoWaves.

It brings the acoustic centers of the drivers more into vertical alignment.

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[That good enough...? ;) ]
 
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I went and got the Barzilay cabinets. The inside dimensions measure to be 5.1 cubic feet. I think that is pretty good for these. I do have a question, the existing woofer hole is 13.5 inches and that is about the width of the actual cone and a little of the accordian surround deal.
Not sure what woofer you have but the original holes are for Altec 604's and JBL D130's. My 604's mounted right up with no modifications.

Did you measure the volume estimating it from the outside or actual measurements from the inside. Most of us come up with 4.5 to 4.6 CF of gross volume.
 
Not sure what woofer you have but the original holes are for Altec 604's and JBL D130's. My 604's mounted right up with no modifications.

Did you measure the volume estimating it from the outside or actual measurements from the inside. Most of us come up with 4.5 to 4.6 CF of gross volume.

I measured the inside, but I could have been off a little. If they are pretty standard sizes then I must be off. I did it pretty quick.

Is the 4.5 to 4.6 after the woofer and horn displacement? I think the screw holes line up for the woofers. The big hole is only 13.5 in diameter. If they line up for sure, I'm going to mount them and see if I can hear a difference.
 
I measured the inside, but I could have been off a little. If they are pretty standard sizes then I must be off. I did it pretty quick.

Is the 4.5 to 4.6 after the woofer and horn displacement? I think the screw holes line up for the woofers. The big hole is only 13.5 in diameter. If they line up for sure, I'm going to mount them and see if I can hear a difference.
Gross is without anything inside the cabinet. A 15" woofer takes a smaller than 15" hole. Altec 604 and JBL D130 are both 15" woofers.
 
Big Ugly Ewaves

I ordered parts planning to ewave my NLA's that have been sitting in the closet with a dead tweeter. but I decided these needed some help first, since I actually use them for the occasional jam session or DJ gig. So here are some big PA/DJ cabs that I got for next to nothing. they were cheapies to start with then a kitty used the cabs for a scratching post. Can't hurt to try it.
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needless to say, they are not the highest in fidelity. the original crossover ran the 15" full out.
a single cap on the mids and a cap + resister on the peizo tweet. I disconnected everything except the 15" woof,
wire nutted a crossover and listened. then I had to swap a few parts to convert to the >95db version.
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I arrived at this.
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Red curve is original, green is with ewave x-over. waveguide sitting on top of cab. Looks like bit of a hump around 2K still. Maybe I need to try the JBL variant that high passes the woof at 900?
 
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Zilch,

Wowsa. Very cool. The 3012LF is not super econo, but great bang-for-buck.

Have you tried the JBL horn with the Selenium driver with the 3012LF? Or is the QSC that much better? Any reason to choose 3012LF vs 3012HO?

You may have to link the above to the first page, or the project summary...

JSS
 
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It's got "smack."

More refinement to do; the forward axis is steered 1.70° below the midpoint between drivers right now -- I want that up, not down.

The assist is working: Q=2 +6 dB @ 31.7 Hz.

OR, use a sub.

[OR, two of 'em 3012LF in "0.5" mode.... ;) ]
If that read 37.1Hz, my guess would have been textbook 6th order assisted.

I've finally found some time to work on the JBL mock up I did ages ago, and 6th order works nicely for the 2225H in 55L net.

VBResponseJBL2225H6thorder.gif


That's with 400W and still only hitting 4.2mm. If the test box works as well as that looks, then it might just be the ticket for the rears/sides, with either the 2123 or AE TD10M and the PT95 or QSC106 and some of the CD's I have laying around.

Which QSC flare are you discussing here? The rectangular 44 or round 106?
I haven't been following the thread real close of late.
 
Have you tried the JBL horn with the Selenium driver with the 3012LF? Or is the QSC that much better? Any reason to choose 3012LF vs 3012HO?
I chose LF over HO because it will take assist and make extended bass in these small cabs, OR mate with subs, as in HT or SR, without. I believe I have been able to cross it low enough at 1.5 - 1.6 kHz. I'd have to build up a pair with HO like Brandon's No Quarters to compare the mids.

It's the 0446 (?) rectangular QSC so we can use the DE250 with essentially the same pattern as the standard econo waveguides. Somebody's going to have to build with the round ones and measure the forward vertical lobe for comparison. It's a rigorous criterion Wayne visits upon us.

With respect to the standard Selenium setup, I documented that a couple of weeks ago using DC300 woofers. I'll stick Seleniums in these on the QSC waveguides with the 3012s eventually to see if that is a viable option. If it can be said there's slack after just having these for a couple of days, others are going to have to pick it up; I've been working this pretty intensly for several months, now. I need to get this posted over on PE Tech Talk to see if anybody wants to work out other XO topologies with this combo.... :yes:
 
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I went and got the Barzilay cabinets. The inside dimensions measure to be 5.1 cubic feet. I think that is pretty good for these. I do have a question, the existing woofer hole is 13.5 inches and that is about the width of the actual cone and a little of the accordian surround deal.

Do I need to make that hole bigger? I would have to go a half inch around to make that the woofer could drop in from the other side. But I could mount it on the inside. I think I know the answer, but it would be nice if I was told that the easy way would be fine.

This thing is almost all ready to go. I'm feeling pretty lucky to have scored these right after the woofers.

They are typically in two sizes, sounds like you got the larger ones. Everything from DC-300 (cheap) to JBL 2235H or the nice AE drivers Similost is using. Lots of choices, good cab to grab!:thmbsp:

russellc
 
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