Need help with next step

T

tmesselt

New Member
Hi Audiokarma community,

A few years ago I decided to build a nice stereo system. My goals were for it to give me goosebumps when I listened to it. Unfortunately that has only happened a few times, and most of the time I do not enjoy listening to the setup. I find that the horns make it difficult for me to listen to very many songs in a row. They can be very fatiguing, and there is no bass. I thought that seeking out Mcintosh tube gear that was 50 years old was going to give me a buttery smooth sound. The speakers are in the corners and I have moved them all around the room that they are in.

The system is comprised of

Mcintosh C20 Preamplifier
Mcintosh MC240 Amplifier
Thorens TD124 Turntable
Denon DL-103R Cartridge
Klipsch Heresy III Speakers
Blue Jean Cables (speaker and interconnect)

So my questions is I know that I need to change something, but I don't want to keep dumping money into this system without making some progress here.

Couple of options:
  • Add a subwoofer (this solves the bass issue, not sure if I will be able to get over the horns though)
  • New speakers
    • Budget is about 1500, and I don't want to get anything with too big of a footprint
    • I have heard JBL and Mcintosh tubes go well. The ones I am looking at L100, L112 are around 90db.
Music I like to listen to, bluegrass, rock, jazz, blues.

Open to suggestions, love vintage gear and want to make this work.
 
Last edited:
You have a nice setup! I have never been a fan of klipsch horns but I’m obviously in the minority. They are always detailed and forward with a really dry bass and highs that never seemed airy and open like I prefer. I use B&W Signature 805 with a Velodyne HGS 15 sub and could not be more satisfied. I would steer you to a used pair of B&W Nautilus or Focal or something in that league.
 
Gerry Lynch said:
You have a nice setup! I have never been a fan of klipsch horns but I’m obviously in the minority. They are always detailed and forward with a really dry bass and highs that never seemed airy and open like I prefer. I use B&W Signature 805 with a Velodyne HGS 15 sub and could not be more satisfied. I would steer you to a used pair of B&W Nautilus or Focal or something in that league.
Click to expand...

Appreciate the kind words, I'll look into your recommendations.
 
Klipsch Heresy speakers were not designed to have much bass, this was intentional. They were designed to be supplementary not primary speakers. That being said, many people enjoy them tremendously, especially when paired with vintage McIntosh tube gear.
Many people replace the original tweeter diaphragm with aftermarket products such as Bob Crites titanium diapgragms which smooth out much of the perceived harshness. To use the Heresys as the primary speakers many folks supplement them with a subwoofer or two. Keep in mind that placement in the listening space is very important (critical?) to achieving the best results. then again they just may not be the right speakers for you. The JBL L100 would not be a good candidate, needs more power than the MC240 has and even then although very popular are not really all that good.
 
I vote replacing the Klipsch with any of the 3 way University speakers. They are detailed, have better bass response and can be listened to for hours. The rest of your system USA perfect match for them.

A side bonus is only the "Dean" or "Classic" seem to cost much. The smaller 60's vintage can be had at a bargain price.

Do a forum search on University to get an idea of looks and sound impression from owners.

Allen
 
You need to replace the Klipsch speakers. Adding a subwoofer will not eliminate your listening fatigue. I am like you, I cannot listen to Klipsch speakers for more than 15 minutes without fatigue setting in. Many people love them, I have friends who do, so I don't want to knock them. Everybody's hearing is different. There are many speakers that you could get on the used market that would eliminate your listening fatigue. I personally love the old school (pre 2000) KEF speakers. I have 3 systems with older KEF speakers and I can listen to either one all day without fatigue. They have a rich full sound that is "buttery smooth", to use your description of the sound you are seeking. They also put out enough bass that you don't need a subwoofer. I would highly recommend the KEF Reference 104/2 (made between 1984 and 1996) and the older KEF Reference Models 1,2,3 and 4 (made between 1994 and 1999). I personally have the 104/2 and the Reference Model 1. I also had the Reference Model 2 but sold it because it was very close to the Model 1 except for a little more bass output but was too big for my room.
 
darkblue94 said:
Klipsch Heresy speakers were not designed to have much bass, this was intentional. They were designed to be supplementary not primary speakers. That being said, many people enjoy them tremendously, especially when paired with vintage McIntosh tube gear.
Many people replace the original tweeter diaphragm with aftermarket products such as Bob Crites titanium diapgragms which smooth out much of the perceived harshness. To use the Heresys as the primary speakers many folks supplement them with a subwoofer or two. Keep in mind that placement in the listening space is very important (critical?) to achieving the best results. then again they just may not be the right speakers for you. The JBL L100 would not be a good candidate, needs more power than the MC240 has and even then although very popular are not really all that good.
Click to expand...

Since I have the Heresy III, I don't think there are any Bob Crites upgrades for them. Unless I am not seeing something correctly? Appreciate the feedback on the JBL as well.
 
A23gt said:
I vote replacing the Klipsch with any of the 3 way University speakers. They are detailed, have better bass response and can be listened to for hours. The rest of your system USA perfect match for them.

A side bonus is only the "Dean" or "Classic" seem to cost much. The smaller 60's vintage can be had at a bargain price.

Do a forum search on University to get an idea of looks and sound impression from owners.

Allen
Click to expand...

I have never heard of University speakers, i'll do some research and keep a look out for them on my local Craigslist.
 
tmesselt said:
Since I have the Heresy III, I don't think there are any Bob Crites upgrades for them. Unless I am not seeing something correctly? Appreciate the feedback on the JBL as well.
Click to expand...
Yes, I did miss that they are the newest version Heresy. I've not heard the new ones but I would hope that they aren't as brash as the earlier iterations can be. Placement and bass issues should be roughly the same I would think. :)
 
Lou G said:
You need to replace the Klipsch speakers. Adding a subwoofer will not eliminate your listening fatigue. I am like you, I cannot listen to Klipsch speakers for more than 15 minutes without fatigue setting in. Many people love them, I have friends who do, so I don't want to knock them. Everybody's hearing is different. There are many speakers that you could get on the used market that would eliminate your listening fatigue. I personally love the old school (pre 2000) KEF speakers. I have 3 systems with older KEF speakers and I can listen to either one all day without fatigue. They have a rich full sound that is "buttery smooth", to use your description of the sound you are seeking. They also put out enough bass that you don't need a subwoofer. I would highly recommend the KEF Reference 104/2 (made between 1984 and 1996) and the older KEF Reference Models 1,2,3 and 4 (made between 1994 and 1999). I personally have the 104/2 and the Reference Model 1. I also had the Reference Model 2 but sold it because it was very close to the Model 1 except for a little more bass output but was too big for my room.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what has been keeping me away from adding a subwoofer, thank you for confirming this. However since it seems so many people have done this with the Heresy speakers I figured I could give it a try. The KEF speaker recommendations are much appreciated. Hoping to be able to enjoy listening to music on this setup one day, horns are definitely not for me.
 
Within your budget level you can do quite well but keep in mind that the older KEF speakers need a pretty good deal of maintainence and upkeep to perform to their potential, I have a pair of the 103/4s myself, that's how I know. The MC240 may not be enough for the KEF Reference line, or it may be. Depends on your particular variables. :)
 
My only experience with Klipsch was the RF-3 towers and I too found the tweeters not to ears' liking. I will second the Kef recommendation but I don't think you have enough oomph to power them. I have a pair of 105.2 that are extremely clean and smooth through all frequencies. The bass is so loud, crisp and fast it is practically telling you "the only reason you need a subwoofer is to anger your neighbors", but I am pushing 100+ wpc through them.
 
Horns. if you can't listen to them get something you can listen to. Time to evaluate some speakers and see if you like the sound. Don't know where you are but there are dealers all over the country that have speakers you can listen to. Maybe 5% of the total from 1980, so they are not everywhere. Maybe some AKers would host a visit for you to listen. Or just buy some good used ones for the going rate or less and if they work great if not, sell and try again.
 
tmesselt said:
That's upstairs at Stereotypes right? Yes I'm sure they would sound amazing. I think a bit out of my budget though!
Click to expand...
Yes it is the Stereotypes "Big Buck Lounge" the Utopias are spectacular and also miles above my meager budgetary limits. The guys there are so friendly and accommodating to broke guys like me. Next time I visit I plan to bring a gift of some fine Oregon brewed IPA. Now if I could just remember which one they said was a favorite. :)
 
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