New Tube Amp and Speakers-(Raven Audio/KEF LS50s) High Synergy!

[avanti1960]

I like the look of these amps - and that the tube layout look like wings stretching out - a small but nice touch given the brand name. The green one looks really nice - I wish more companies would have that sort of metallic paint option. I live in Hong Kong and I often think to myself with the penchant here for all things cartoon and anime that hello Kitty and Doraemon colours would sell like hot cakes. I recently saw a VW Bug decked out as a Hello Kitty mobile. So why not speakers and amps etc? Kero Kero green frog speakers - I can see it.

When I first visited the dealer they were playing a metallic white Osprey amplifier that had an incredible glowing sheen to it, kind of like the older Audi automotive metallic white. I thought WTF is this, blatant high end pretentious audiophile bling.
But the sound is really what drew me in, and the more neutral colors (black, silver) look awesome IMHO. Definitely an automotive theme with an extreme quality paint and finish using the auto-grade enamel. I actually gave mine a wax job with some turtle wax!
Line Magnetic also seem to be following a decorative path with their orange / white theme.
Anything is better than the industrial mad doctor lab instrument look that many current amplifiers are offering.

 

[avanti1960]

I'm not too keen on the handles but the rest of the design is very nice. The Jade Green is lovely.

You would appreciate the handles as soon as you lifted it out of the box! Talk about practical- I cannot believe how secure and convenient those things were while moving the amp around. It's fairly heavy and the handles are put in a perfect spot that balances the weight.

 

[avanti1960]

In the past few weeks I have learned a lot about this company and the amplifier.
Founded by a Texas entrepreneur and a Korean amplifier designer. The latter gentlemen has continued to design and develop tube audio circuits since solid state took over the US market back in the 70's.
They source their parts from these cool market place dealers in Korea and build the amps in Texas.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.324631247565970.91454.100000572932166&type=3
The controls are rock solid and very high quality- the selector knob, power knob, volume control- all operate with an extremely high quality feel and solid touch.
After playing games with tube rolling it was noticeable that the tube sockets are rock solid- no give or looseness- yet the pin sockets are quite firm and appear to be made of copper in the shape of small plates that remind me of a mechanical camera lens aperture. It seems as if the circuits, parts selection and mechanical design were very well planned and executed.

 

[Art K.]

You would appreciate the handles as soon as you lifted it out of the box! Talk about practical- I cannot believe how secure and convenient those things were while moving the amp around. It's fairly heavy and the handles are put in a perfect spot that balances the weight.

I knew they were practical however I still don't like the looks. Doesn't blend well with the balance of the design to my eyes. Perhaps a different look for the handles...

 

[daniel69]

Glad to see some Love for Raven audio here. I have the Blackhawk LE and love it through my Joseph Audio and Vpi combo. Also the owner Dave is a super guy and will take great care of you if you call him. Nice rig Avanti1960! My buddy has the same KEF speakers and they sound great and are built like tanks. I was pleasantly surprised by the Blackhawk. Very alive and dynamic. Nothing rolled off here..... Time to tube roll!! Why? Just for the heck of it.....

 

[dchang81]

Looks like standard chifi. And with the number of offerings from a new brand have to expect it to be.

 

[avanti1960]

Looks like standard chifi. And with the number of offerings from a new brand have to expect it to be.

What is that supposed to mean?
These amps are not that new (Raven audio started operating in 2010). They are co designed by an American and a Korean partner and assembled in Texas. The parts and construction are very high quality compared to the cheap generic tube amps that do come from China. The tube sockets are so solid on the board, ceramic bases and use bite edge contact copper pin sockets. The switches and controls are rock solid as are the interconnect ports and speaker terminals.

 

[RavenDave]

Hmmmm.... with that name he might know what he's talking about.... LOL But nope, he doesn't actually....

Let's see...... Chassis made in Trinity, Texas, painted in Huntsville, Texas, tube sockets sourced from Japan (ceramic with gold plated contacts), Resistors: Allen Bradley (NOS - USA), Tokyo Ko-on, Takman (Japan), Caddock (USA), PRP (Japan), and the Capacitors: RavenCap (designed and manufactured to our spec. in San Diego, CA), and Nichichon (Japan - through Mouser).

Faceplate and preamp plates: aluminum machined in Cut & Shoot, Texas, anodized at Houston Plating (they did the Mars rovers~!), MBL and CNC terminals (Germany and Japan), and we machine our own knobs too! -

BUT WAIT~!!! I think the LED's are indeed from China! Maybe.... Possibly the stainless steel screws? Possibly.... So, nope, "TEX-FI" is more like it - Yeehaw!

 

[Al D'Addario]

Glad to see some Love for Raven audio here. I have the Blackhawk LE and love it through my Joseph Audio and Vpi combo. Also the owner Dave is a super guy and will take great care of you if you call him. Nice rig Avanti1960! My buddy has the same KEF speakers and they sound great and are built like tanks. I was pleasantly surprised by the Blackhawk. Very alive and dynamic. Nothing rolled off here..... Time to tube roll!! Why? Just for the heck of it.....

 

[Kevin Deal]

It is awesome. Nothing taken from the Rogue but my dealer used to carry Primaluna and Rogue Audio and even with tube rolling, they could not get the either amp to sound as nice as the Raven Nighthawk. This thing was a hidden gem of a find.
In all fairness to the Cronus, it is slightly less expensive than the Raven ($2600) but the Cronus Mag II has a headphone amplifier and phono stage.
If Rogue deleted the features and focused strictly on sound they would have an amp at that price point that would sound better as well.
The new Rogue RP-5 preamp and Stereo 100 amp sounds out of this world but that is a $7000 proposition.

Forgive me for piping in, but that dealer never carried PrimaLuna and tried tube rolling, etc. Dealers often do stuff like that to get you to not consider another brand. But he has never been a dealer, I can assure you. The reason I mention this is I heard this before not just from the fellow you mention, but from U.S.A. Tube Audio who tells people he sells PrimaLuna but because he "likes you" will let you in on a secret. PrimaLuna is not dependable. Which flies in the face of the truth. The truth is neither have ever been a dealer.

Just a heads up. I should probably just let dealers say things like this and blow it off...but I think people need to be honest and not try so hard to slam customers into something.

 

[avanti1960]

Forgive me for piping in, but that dealer never carried PrimaLuna and tried tube rolling, etc. Dealers often do stuff like that to get you to not consider another brand. But he has never been a dealer, I can assure you. The reason I mention this is I heard this before not just from the fellow you mention, but from U.S.A. Tube Audio who tells people he sells PrimaLuna but because he "likes you" will let you in on a secret. PrimaLuna is not dependable. Which flies in the face of the truth. The truth is neither have ever been a dealer.

Just a heads up. I should probably just let dealers say things like this and blow it off...but I think people need to be honest and not try so hard to slam customers into something.

absolutely untrue. the dealer i am referring to is doing it as a hobby because high quality audio is his passion. he cares about sound first and foremost. they hold regular audiophile club meetings where people do all kinds of shootouts including amplifier and tube swapping. in the end sound quality wins and nothing else.
in the case of raven audio, he had to work hard at convincing the owner to let his products be sold in brick and mortar shops that could take away from internet direct sales. he did this because the amps sound so amazing compared to the competition. and they do.

 

[Kevin Deal]

absolutely untrue. the dealer i am referring to is doing it as a hobby because high quality audio is his passion. he cares about sound first and foremost. they hold regular audiophile club meetings where people do all kinds of shootouts including amplifier and tube swapping. in the end sound quality wins and nothing else.
in the case of raven audio, he had to work hard at convincing the owner to let his products be sold in brick and mortar shops that could take away from internet direct sales. he did this because the amps sound so amazing compared to the competition. and they do.

You said "Nothing taken from the Rogue but my dealer used to carry Primaluna and Rogue Audio" I know who the dealers are out there. If you want to give me the name of that dealer, I will check to see if he was, and if I'm wrong, I'm most happy to tell you so. There are no "hobbiest" dealers for PrimaLuna, and I'm just telling you sales guys often default to "Oh I used to sell those but they suck so I stopped" when they never sold them at all. Sadly people do stuff like that. But maybe I'm wrong, and if so I will let you know. Happily.

 

[Art K.]

I know at least one dealer who quit selling Prima Luna because the dealer didn't like them and because they were tired of taking their amps back on return (not for repair but due to dissatisfaction with the sound). This is per the dealer. The dealer also cited a difficult distributor. True or not...I couldn't say. What I do know is that I was one of the customers who returned a Prima Luna amp after a whole bunch of attempts to make it work out in my system. The dealer ignored my requests for assistance and when I contacted the distributor I didn't get very far either. Frustrated I returned the amp for a refund. The dealer told me (while pitching a hissy) that they had 100% returns on that amp and that even included one of the employees. I'll always remember that amp as both the best and worst amp I ever owned...at best it was magical and at worst it was unlistenable.

 

[Kevin Deal]

I know at least one dealer who quit selling Prima Luna because the dealer didn't like them and because they were tired of taking their amps back on return (not for repair but due to dissatisfaction with the sound). This is per the dealer. The dealer also cited a difficult distributor. True or not...I couldn't say. What I do know is that I was one of the customers who returned a Prima Luna amp after a whole bunch of attempts to make it work out in my system. The dealer ignored my requests for assistance and when I contacted the distributor I didn't get very far either. Frustrated I returned the amp for a refund. The dealer told me (while pitching a hissy) that they had 100% returns on that amp and that even included one of the employees. I'll always remember that amp as both the best and worst amp I ever owned...at best it was magical and at worst it was unlistenable.

Hi Art! That was over 10 years ago. I'm not sure how the sound could go from magical to horrible, but it's HiFi I suppose. I have a great memory but don't recall speaking to you about your amp, so I'm sorry if I missed that. I searched my e-mails from 2006 and have no records of helping you directly. As to the dealer, Stereo Types, they sold a bunch of our little ProLogue One integrated which was $1095, and I checked my records...they never had a refund, return, or complaint. It was a great little amp which has become a bit of a cult classic if you care to try to find a used one. They command a tidy resale value. They also sold a couple of our first preamps. Again...no issues.

They only ever bought ONE power amp, the $1095 ProLogue Four. So if they said that to you it was not true. It must be the one that you bought. They sent it back all scratched up and we exchanged it anyway to make you happy. If they ignored you, as you say, I suspected that. I let them know that loud and clear, and things went downhill from there and frankly we don't need them as a dealer. Just because a customer doesn't slap down $10k for an ARC doesn't mean they get ignored or blow off. Relative to the customers "wealth" $1095 is as much money as $10,000. And we go through that at PrimaLuna. If that makes me "difficult" so be it.

I terminated a dealer in Texas who said these exact words: "Your gear isn't expensive enough. If somebody asks for it, I'll sell it. But I'm not going to put the DiaLogue Premium ($3395) in the same room as a (brand X). I'm not giving up an $8000 sale."

Sadly it does come down to that money motive sometimes. 10 years ago we were a much younger company. Now we have great dealers and our products are at a level that is so developed, sometimes I think we've painted ourselves into a corner as I don't know how we'll top it.

 

[Art K.]

You weren't bad to deal with, Kevin. I called you a few times about it, no emails. Unfortunately we just never got to the bottom of the problem. You redirected me to the dealer and the dealer was moving at the time and was unwilling to take any time from their busy schedule...even though it's a 3 hour round trip drive for me! It was the ProLogue One that I first heard with a pair of Naim Ariva and then ProAc speakers. The One had the phono stage added and it sounded excellent. I was unsure about the power and the dealer suggested that the ProLogue 2 would be ideal...it wasn't. With some recordings it was very nice and with others it was relentlessly bright and I just hated it. I called a friend who was a tech (now retired) and long time dealer and he thought that the auto bias circuit was probably biased too hot. In any case the dealer continuously blew me off for months until I showed up at their door with entire system and demanded a refund or exchange. That was when the dealer went in to a fit of rage and screamed, hollered, and pounded their fist on the wall...they also told me that they hated the PL2 and that they were all being returned to them and that you were no fun to work with...of course they left out that they were no walk in the park!!! I have since bought some tubes from you and talked to you a couple of times.

 

[Art K.]

I will be in the market for a reasonably priced amp soon...I hope. Too bad the old PL1 is no longer available!

 

[seminole54]

Art

I don't know what you consider "reasonably priced", but you might want to take a look at the "upscale" line from the same company, Mystere. Higher quality parts and to me, much better looking with the "wet black" look. I picked up one of their power amps last month used and really like it.

Jack

 

[Art K.]

Art

I don't know what you consider "reasonably priced", but you might want to take a look at the "upscale" line from the same company, Mystere. Higher quality parts and to me, much better looking with the "wet black" look. I picked up one of their power amps last month used and really like it.

Jack

That would be too much money or it would be a consideration. I hear good things about that line.

 

[Art K.]

Wow, I just took another look. They sure are purdy!

 

[Kevin Deal]

You weren't bad to deal with, Kevin. I called you a few times about it, no emails. Unfortunately we just never got to the bottom of the problem. You redirected me to the dealer and the dealer was moving at the time and was unwilling to take any time from their busy schedule...even though it's a 3 hour round trip drive for me! It was the ProLogue One that I first heard with a pair of Naim Ariva and then ProAc speakers. The One had the phono stage added and it sounded excellent. I was unsure about the power and the dealer suggested that the ProLogue 2 would be ideal...it wasn't. With some recordings it was very nice and with others it was relentlessly bright and I just hated it. I called a friend who was a tech (now retired) and long time dealer and he thought that the auto bias circuit was probably biased too hot. In any case the dealer continuously blew me off for months until I showed up at their door with entire system and demanded a refund or exchange. That was when the dealer went in to a fit of rage and screamed, hollered, and pounded their fist on the wall...they also told me that they hated the PL2 and that they were all being returned to them and that you were no fun to work with...of course they left out that they were no walk in the park!!! I have since bought some tubes from you and talked to you a couple of times.

I am no fun to work with. If a dealer dumps customers. In fact I can get cranky. The dealer makes twice the money as we do and some are lazy as hell.

If they said that the PL or PL2 were being returned all the time that is such bullsh*t. Those two amps put PrimaLuna on the map. I mean we sold so many of them. People have nicknamed them "The Marantz 8B of our time" because of the build quality and point to point wiring. 99% are still in use today. And will be in 20 years. And because of it's huge following it's been kept in the line as the ProLogue Classic with some additional safety features like Bad Tube Indicator, and power and output transformer protection to protect the most expensive parts so they really will last forever.

I have some Mystere amps tucked away if you want to call me. They are fabulous, but are pentode designs so the bass may not be quite as tight but the mids may be a smidge jucier. The iA11 WILL NOT fit tubes like KT88 and KT120 because of the tube base diameter.

Engineering hours...from REAL engineers...not somebody with no real history..is hard to get. The engineer working on both brands was the Chief Engineer from Goldmund in Switzerland, and indeed penned their most iconic products, many of which cost $20-$50k. So the decision was to throw everything at PrimaLuna, and Mystere had to be "parked" for a while. Since then, Durob Audio has bought Bow Technologies and has brought on two more engineers, so there is real horsepower there.
.
Anyway...even though it's ten years late, I'm sorry if you didn't get the best help. I should have stuck my nose deeper maybe. Grrrr...