Advantage of a bi wire set up?

[Quadman2]

Have never really understood the advantage of setting up speakers in a bi wire format. Could some one explain why to do this.

Q2

 

[Uncle Paul]

The advantage of bi-wiring that it supposedly keeps low frequencies from overwhelming high frequencies by separating the lf energy from the hf energy in the cables. Some pretty respected companies that are heavy into solid engineering advocate bi-wiring.

Subjectivists will tell you it makes an improvement which they will hear.
Objectivists will tell you it can't possibly make a difference which they will not hear.

IMO, any improvements are likely due to replacing a bad cable with a good one or removing a bad jumper from the circuit.

IMO, the best thing is to try it keeping an open mind, and trying to not let your expectations color your experience.

This is one of those hot button topics, so I'm mostly going to and read what other have to offer and hopefully learn something I didn't know.

 

[HTHMAN]

Bi-wiring makes the most sense if used in conjunction with exotic wiring and cable risers.

 

[unfairlane]

Biwiring keeps the woofers moore powerhungry magnet-system a bit moore separated from the delicate tweeter system, that`s IF the speakers do not have serial-filters. The calming effect from this can be recognised even in simpler systems as long as the speakercables or tweeters are not too bad doing theyr job

 

[Lesterbest]

IMO, there is no advantage.

 

[sqlsavior]

Although a speaker manufacturer whom I respect (Richard Vandersteen) insists that his speakers sound better bi-wired, according to standard electrical theory, it makes little sense. And although I am not one who believes that engineers know everything, I personally put bi-wiring in the category of "things I won't bother with", after running TWO sets of 14 ga. to every Vandersteen in my first home-theatre attempt...

 

[Quadman2]

So, for the maj part...I either have to be subjectively objective, or is it objectively subjective if I decide to hook up BW.

Thanks for sharing your info. Guess the jury is still out on this one.

Q2

 

[Uncle Paul]

By electrical theory there is no reason for biwire to have any advantage or make any improvement over a single cable. Here is a good article that explains the ins and outs: http://www.achievum.eu/bi-wiring.html

If I get bored enough I'll experiment by hooking my dual trace o-scope at the speaker input of a biwired setup. I have no doubt that the traces will be identical regardless of theories about how the additional conductor prevents woofer/tweeter interactions.

However, this is The Cutting Edge forum where electrical theory and conventional test equipment is mostly considered gobbeldygook and the only test equipment allowed are your ears.

My ears can't detect a difference. So for me the answer is no, but your ears are different than mine and perhaps you can tell the difference.

Therefore objectively, they can't make a difference, but subjectively they can. Even if the improvement is due to the placebo effect, to you it's still an improvement. The other aspect is that even if you don't hear a difference, but enjoy your biwire cables for their intrinsic cool factor to you it's still an improvement.

 

[osubuc45]

When you bi-wire do you run two sets of wires to the speakers ? Do you connect the AandB speaker terminals? I used to Bi- Amp where I ran two identical amps into the speakers, but could not tell a difference..

 

[Uncle Paul]

When you bi-wire do you run two sets of wires to the speakers ? Do you connect the AandB speaker terminals? I used to Bi- Amp where I ran two identical amps into the speakers, but could not tell a difference..

You can use A + B or simply join them at A (or B).

When you bi-amped did you use an electronic crossover? Some crossovers are designed to allow an electronic crossover or to use the passive crossovers built into the speakers. In the speakers I've bi-amped I've always used an electronic crossover and had audible results. I'm so sold on bi-amping that I've reversed engineered the unobtanium crossover designed for my speakers and wil build it when I get caught up on some necessary refurb projects.

 

[osubuc45]

You can use A + B or simply join them at A (or B).

When you bi-amped did you use an electronic crossover? Some crossovers are designed to allow an electronic crossover or to use the passive crossovers built into the speakers. In the speakers I've bi-amped I've always used an electronic crossover and had audible results. I'm so sold on bi-amping that I've reversed engineered the unobtanium crossover designed for my speakers and wil build it when I get caught up on some necessary refurb projects.

Thanks. No I just ran from each amp to the speakers which had two sets of binding posts.

 

[62caddy]

When using a single amplifier, a loudspeaker's internal crossover is used in both single & bi wiring. Electrically the only change is the cable gauge is effectively halved (twice as heavy) as that for using a single wire of a given gauge. Provided the cable used is of the proper size in the first place (as a function of impedance and distance), bi wiring is of little benefit IMHO.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Electrically the only change is the cable gauge is effectively halved (twice as heavy) as that for using a single wire of a given gauge.

You know, I'm not even sure you get that benefit, since each leg is only passing part of the frequency range. Something to noodle on a bit...

Provided the cable used is of the proper size in the first place (as a function of impedance and distance), bi wiring is of little benefit IMHO.

My experience as well.

 

[62caddy]

You know, I'm not even sure you get that benefit, since each leg is only passing part of the frequency range. Something to noodle on a bit...

That would imply biamplification (two amplifiers) + an active crossover - as opposed to just simply biwiring.

OP did not specify he would be using two amplifiers so my response based on single amplifier biwiring.

Thanks.

 

[Lesterbest]

Short of biamping or triamping with an active crossover, the game is not worth the candle, IMO.

 

[Uncle Paul]

That would imply biamplification (two amplifiers) + an active crossover - as opposed to just simply biwiring.

OP did not specify he would be using two amplifiers so my response based on single amplifier biwiring.

Thanks.

Yes, you are correct - I realized after I wrote that that you would measure the full range prior to the passive crossovers.

 

[House de Kris]

Electrically the only change is the cable gauge is effectively halved (twice as heavy) as that for using a single wire of a given gauge.

Not so sure this is true. As Uncle Paul points out, the different legs pass different signals. So, it is true that, mechanically speaking, double runs of cable is indeed twice the cable; but electrically speaking, it is equivalent to a single cable of the double run. Well, except for a small band around the crossover frequency. IOW, a double run of 12ga cable works effectively as a single run of 12ga cable (not 9ga) over most of the audio bandwidth.

 

[unfairlane]

Lot of misleading comments here, including Uncle Pauls link.

Years back I was involved in a slot-car club, rigged up with photocells in the tracks connected to a display that showed lap-times++. Ran into a problem here; the display zeroed out when we "floored" the throttle. Even this tiny little drop in voltage was enough to spoil our fun. And there was only one ac-line in the room, the only thing I could come up with was to connect this lap-time box to a outlet on the other next wall, just a few feets away. And it worked!

Ok, on the same sourche but now a few feets away and the voltage-rip was allready reduced enough to not be a problem. I allready had some idea about how this could work from my years as an audiophile, but this really visualised it to me. Any drop in a cable will be smaller the farther away you go, meaning if you use a paralell cable it will be close to unaffected of whatever might be going on in the other cable. Simple as that, but most audiophiles are moore into religious explanations it seems

 

[Wasatch]

I did both, single and bi, with my B&W CDM 9NTs when I had them, and I heard a nice difference.

 

[62caddy]

Not so sure this is true. As Uncle Paul points out, the different legs pass different signals. So, it is true that, mechanically speaking, double runs of cable is indeed twice the cable; but electrically speaking, it is equivalent to a single cable of the double run. Well, except for a small band around the crossover frequency. IOW, a double run of 12ga cable works effectively as a single run of 12ga cable (not 9ga) over most of the audio bandwidth.

Doubling wire does reduce resistance (net) however I see your point that this would not occur when running two leads leads into different parts of the crossover; the benefits of bi wiring are even less than I had originally supposed.

Thanks for the clarification.