Why is USB frowned upon?

[Njoy-Music]

bored: Yes using a true USB 2 or higher connection will work fine. The only problem I've run in to was on older systems with weak and noisy power supplies and earlier implementations of USB. The main thing I learned was taking the time to get a good power supply with lots of room. I avoid wireless anything coming near my PC. And took the time to track down that NIC card issue. Please remember this has been my experience and a few friends just starting out. I'd say with what you're looking at is fine and shouldn't give you any problems.

The main thing I did was get started first. Learn how everything worked, tried different players and their settings, etc. Then try out different ideas to see what works best for you. Probably the most fun of the journey for me was being able to hear the differences/disapointments once I made improvements. And what works for me may not work for you on your system. Like any other part of the audio journey it's about finding the right synergy of equipment that works best for you in your environment. Enjoy!

 

[wushuliu]

USB for serious audio is on its way out. Slowly there is a move towards network/lan solutions. In fact there are solutions that have been around in the pro audio world that we just didn't know about in terms of sound quality. There's a reason there's a cottage industry around USB 'decrapifiers' - it is a flawed transport. Unfortunately you have to really dig around on different forums to come across alternate solutions that are superior. Because the direct from china audio world has been designing very good usb to spdif/i2s converters and the retail audiophile crowd have no idea this is happening. I was lucky enough to stumble across all this recently just as a new spdif converter based on the new XMOS chips came out. It's called the Singxer F-1 and it makes any thought of using straight usb obsolete. You listen to it and go OMG how is this not everywhere. But these chinese designers and sellers aren't shelling out ads and courting Darko/TAS/6 moons. Now PS Audio is coming out with their LANRover (customized ICron Gigabit/usb extender), and other adventurous audiophiles are discovering straight ethernet options like Focusrite and raving. These are people with serious gear. But it's a world totally cut off from retail network. And the verdict is clear: compared to these other optiuons, usb sucks.

 

[BigElCat]

^^^Hello.

Singxer F-1 uses the USB format and converts it to spdif. I doesn't take the place of USB.
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...d-U8-upgraded-version/601461_32648384788.html

 

[E-Stat]

USB for serious audio is on its way out. Slowly there is a move towards network/lan solutions.

Sorry, but I disagree. There are a number of audio optimized players that rely upon USB connectivity from DAC to device that access content from a remote server based digital library via ethernet like the microRendu.

 

[2string1]

My Aries and Vega are designed for and works best with USB... I honestly don't here any difference between S/pidf & USB with redbook files.

 

[elcoholic]

I have a bit of experience with 2 USB DACS and two different computers I'd like to ask about. Neither DAC would be considered high end - a Fiio Q1 and the onboard Musical Fidelity V90-AMPDAC. Both sound great for my intended primary purpose of listening to headphones at work. I'm using iTunes and listening to ALAC CD rips and AIFF downloads up to 24/96. My work computer is an HP EliteBook 840 and the music files are on a Toshiba 1TB USB hard drive. When I'm using 3-GIS and do something that requires a regen (for lack of a better term) the music drops out with either DAC. Nothing I do on my personal MacBook Pro causes drop outs in the music, but the music is on the internal hard drive. So is the cause of my USB drop out likely power or timing messing with the DAC or the USB drive?

 

[rwartner]

Is external drive USB 2.0 or 3.0? 3.0 is way faster. Or maybe additional memory would help.

 

[elcoholic]

It's a USB 3.0 and actually 1.5 tb now that I checked. The PC has 8 gb of RAM installed.

 

[sKiZo]

Dropout like that are usually due to limited system resources ... in other words, other programs that are memory hogs.

Solutions there are to increase memory or set your player software to high priority. Probably an issue on a work computer. You might also be able to increase the buffer size on the player itself to maximum (rtfm) so there's more music in memory to get you around the rough spots.

 

[elcoholic]

Thanks I'll check it out.

 

[elcoholic]

I set the priority to "above normal". Which took it down to a blip. There's 2 higher steps left. I couldn't find the buffer settings. Google only returned results for streaming buffer. Thx.

 

[PureQuill]

If anyone believes USB sounds bad & is inferior please explain this to me .

Why does RME a very well respected German manufacture of professional recording gear use USB connectivity on their newest RME ADI-2 Pro & UFX+ 20th Anniversary Flagship Interface & DAC?

Who is RME?
http://www.synthax.co.uk/rme/

ADI-2Pro is RME’s Anniversary reference AD/DA converter is a USB 2.0 DAC, USB 2.0 interface and a high-end headphone amplifier. Its design, unique specifications, user features and its ability to deliver crystal transparency, make it perfect for mastering and measurement applications as well as the ultimate tool for audiophiles everywhere.

http://www.synthax.co.uk/rme/converters/rme-adi-2-pro/

UFX+
http://www.synthax.com/index.php/fireface-ufx-arc-usb.html

Because I am sure the German engineers at RME are clueless about digital sound quality & conversion.

Sorry but “USB is frowned upon” only by people that don’t know any better or are simply uninformed.
Cheers
PQ

 

[bored184]

I think I had my first dropout yesterday using USB. The girls and I were in the living room having our Disney Dance party and the music stopped for a second then came back. I have no idea why I lost sound.

Thank you to all who chimed in. Your comments were extremely helpful!!!

 

[rwartner]

I use dedicated laptop, Windows 10, Windows Media Player. I have over 2000 CDs ripped lossless WMA to USB 3.0 external drive.

I have done this using internal drive, external USB 2.0 and external 3.0. With over 700 GB of music files USB 2.0 is very slow. It of course depends on the size of your music files. Larger is slower. USB 3.0 works as well as internal and is convenient.

For instance when I open Windows Media Player - how long does it take to get ready. Big difference between 2.0 and 3.0. 3.0 is immediately ready. 2.0 can take a while.

USB 3.0 no problems. My conclusion is your dropouts are not caused by external drive (if 3.0). Unless there is something wrong with it.

8 GB of RAM should be plenty. I would run Task Manager and try to run some programs to see if something is hogging memory. Run virus checker, go through the laundry list of performance tips. My laptop is dedicated, never run other programs. No dropouts.

 

[bored184]

Eventually my system will involve a Raspberry PI 3 connected wirelessly to my server, that in turn will be plugged into my DAC. Currently though I use my laptop to connect to my server and run USB out of it.

 

[sKiZo]

With over 700 GB of music files USB 2.0 is very slow. It of course depends on the size of your music files. Larger is slower. USB 3.0 works as well as internal and is convenient.

Maybe taking things out of context here (it's what we do) ... but is it the load time when you play a track, or is it setup time when you start the software that's slow? I can see where USB3 could make a big difference there as the media player is rolling through all your files to update the playlists and such. USB2 is MORE than fast enough to handle the actual playback at ANY resolution, including uncompressed hi-res wav ...

8 GB of RAM should be plenty. I would run Task Manager and try to run some programs to see if something is hogging memory. Run virus checker, go through the laundry list of performance tips. My laptop is dedicated, never run other programs. No dropouts.

Agreed on the 8GB ... IF it's good memory. Don't cut corners on the chips, and make sure they match the latency of the machine. Shouldn't be an issue on a factory build computer.

And yes, a LOT of dropouts can be cured with increasing the buffer (read the book - there's ALWAYS a way to do that, usually right in the player software) ...

EXAMPLE (gOOgle): To change the default buffer settings in Windows Media Player, use the following steps: Start Windows Media Player (click Start, click Run, type mplayer2, and then click OK). On the View menu, click Options. On the Advanced tab, click Streaming Media (Windows Media).

As mentioned, you'll also want to eliminate any unnecessary TSR programs running in the background that can suck down resources. Virus checkers and malware can be a problem - try running your media player with no internet and see if that helps. Older versions of some browsers are bad too, and one of my favorite roadblocks to smooth playback is real time backup software like Acronis. I cloned the drives and stashed those, and still looking for a backup package that will do just that, on demand, instead of poking around in the background incessantly ... that's just annoying!

 

[Uncle Paul]

I use dedicated HTPC's running JRiver MC for music (all FLAC) and video. 2 channel sound uses a Musical Fidelity V-Link connected to the USB on the HTPC. This provides isolation and buffering from the computer, so there is no noise or jitter passed along to the DAC. The V-Link connects to the DAC via SPDIF. I have heard no difference between optical or coax when testing, but wound up using coax.

Many of the newer DAC's that accept USB have the same buffering capabilities as the V-Links, which is likely why they were discontinued (though still available), but can't provide the isolation from noise.

 

[mdewire]

Ok I will join in on the USB issue or non issue. I have a Mac Mini with 16GB of Ram using a Thunderbolt external drive for my music with Audirvana for my player. The Mac Mini USB out feeds my Auralic Vega. A really good DAC I found out does not benefit from a Jitterbug or REGEN as I have found these devices restricted some of the dynamics of sound in my system. The Mac Mini and Vega are powered separately on a UPS since I treat the Vega as though it is a computer.

The sound of Red-book CD rates is very good and gets to amazing with high resolution 96/24 or 192/24. I have some DSD files as well but not enough to evaluate as better than high res PCM. Since I got my Vega I hear details in music that I have listened to for years that I never heard before. If USB is a bad way to connect I do not hear the problem.

 

[PureQuill]

[QUOTE="mdewire, post: 9683947, member: 72216"

The sound of Red-book CD rates is very good and gets to amazing with high resolution 96/24 or 192/24..[/QUOTE]

Please explain how a red book cd that is two-channel 16-bit sampled at 44,100 Hz.

Sounds better at 24/96 or 24/196? Where is the additional resolution coming from?
If 16/44 is all the digital info there is how is up converting to 24/96 or 24/192 creating higher resolution?
I can see how theoretically(Check out the links below) if one had access to the original recording session files all tracked mixed & mastered at 24/96 or 24/196 there could be better SQ & resolution.
But not if they were bounced down & converted to red book 16/44.1. at any point in the process.


If I watch a 1080 DPI video on a 4K DPI video screen will it make it 4k?
No its is still only 1080 DPI right?
Doesn’t digital audio works the same way?
Or if I am missing something please explain it to me.

Maybe what you are hearing is the improved sound quality of the converters and not the increase in bit & sample rate at all.
Just like the improved over all quality of the 4K TV makes 1080 dpi look better because it has much better over all color ,contrast , sharpness & detail in general and nothing to do with it being a 1080 DPI video.

I agree that USB is not the problem if RME is now able to do this
DURec, which is available on the front of the Fireface UFX+, now offers second generation hardware with improved USB functionality and compatibility, providing greater reliability even with slower or multi-partitioned USB thumb drives.

The maximum number of recordable channels has been raised to 76, meaning all 12 analog inputs plus 64 MADI channels can be recorded simultaneously. An internal Realtime Clock (RTC) delivers time-stamped files, and playback now includes several advanced player functions previously unavailable.

PQ

PS some good reading because acoustic science facts are not subject to marketing hype or community drinking of the Kool Aid winds.

https://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

https://www.applied-acoustics.com/techtalk/sampleratebitdepth/

http://www.trustmeimascientist.com/...rates-when-higher-is-better-and-when-it-isnt/

http://www.mcelhearn.com/music-not-sound-why-high-resolution-music-is-a-marketing-ploy/

 

[Alobar]

ploy/[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE="mdewire, post: 9683947, member: 72216"

The sound of Red-book CD rates is very good and gets to amazing with high resolution 96/24 or 192/24..

Please explain how a red book cd that is two-channel 16-bit sampled at 44,100 Hz.

Sounds better at 24/96 or 24/196? Where is the additional resolution coming from?
If 16/44 is all the digital info there is how is up converting to 24/96 or 24/192 creating higher resolution?
I can see how if one has access to the original recording session files tracked .mixed & mastered at 24/96 or 24/196 there would be better SQ & resolution.
But not if they were bounced down & converted to red book 16/44.1. at any point in the process.


If I watch a 1080 DPI video on a 4K DPI video screen will make it 4k?
No its is still only 1080 DPI right
Doesn’t digital audio works the same way?
Or if I am missing something please explain it to me.

Maybe what you are hearing is the improved quality of the converters and not the increase in bit & sample rate.
Just like the improved over all quality of the 4K TV makes 1080 dpi look better because it has much better over all color ,contrast , sharpness & detail in general and nothing to do with it being a 1080 video.

I agree that USB is not the problem if RME is now able to do this
DURec, which is available on the front of the Fireface UFX+, now offers second generation hardware with improved USB functionality and compatibility, providing greater reliability even with slower or multi-partitioned USB thumb drives.

The maximum number of recordable channels has been raised to 76, meaning all 12 analog inputs plus 64 MADI channels can be recorded simultaneously. An internal Realtime Clock (RTC) delivers time-stamped files, and playback now includes several advanced player functions previously unavailable.

PQ

PS some good reading
https://www.applied-acoustics.com/techtalk/sampleratebitdepth/

http://www.trustmeimascientist.com/...rates-when-higher-is-better-and-when-it-isnt/

http://www.mcelhearn.com/music-not-sound-why-high-resolution-music-is-a-marketing-

I don't think he was saying that at all, or at least I didn't read it that way. I thought he was talking about how amazing his hi rez files sounded using a USB connected DAC with Apple equip. But I could be wrong..