Can a sandbox blacken the background?

[chaz]

So I just fished the construction of a sandbox for my mid eighties planar three and initial listening proved very interesting.
Previously I never heard anything in three background that left me thinking there was anything wrong. No rumble or noise that got on the way of quieter passages,but now it just seems so much more silent. I can only call it blacker. Before this I understood, intellectually, what people meant when they used that term to describe what they heard, but experiencing it is very different.
I would never have said that there was anything wrong before,everything sounded great, it's just that now the sound is just so much more.
One of my other hobbies is visual art and there is a technique in painting called chiaroscuro, where the objects in the painting come out of a very dark, or black background (think dark room, no lights and a lit candle). That is what I am hearing.
If you have been thinking about building, a sandbox my advice would be stop thinking about it and just do it. It is dead easy to do and we'll worth the effort.

 

[marcmorin]

nothing stops vibration as well as a good old sand bag. Just ask any bench rest shooter.

 

[Harvey/ Ga]

nothing stops vibration as well as a good old sand bag. Just ask any bench rest shooter.

Yuppers.....I gather the speakers are not sitting in a sand box?? My cats might approve and christen it daily<VEG>

 

[chaz]

Nope no sandbox for the speakers; although my 4 yr old would probably approve. Well, as long as there was room enough for her toy earth moving equipment lol!
I do have about 4.5 inches of sand in the box though and it's sitting on 4 brass isolation cones. Sides of the box are 1" maple with 3/4" mdf for the bottom. Instead of a single Glenn top plate I have the feet of the rega sitting on 3 squares of maple on top of the sand.
The turntable covers the entire top of the box so that when looking dire tly down from the top the box is not seen. I'll post some pics tomorrow after I put the sealer coats on.

 

[SSaxdude]

Does the amount of sand used make a difference?

For example: 2 inches of sand versus 4.5 inches.

 

[willboy]

Can't say I noticed much difference to the sound when I first used a sandbox, but my TT was previously sitting on a heavy, solid sideboard so maybe the sandbox had little effect in that department. What did lower the noise floor on my TT was coupling it to the sandbox by means of 3 spiked feet. Like you I could not hear any background noise with the stock feet in place - no rumble or motor noise even when I placed my ear close to the motor, but after fitting the spikes I'm getting a blacker background, most noticeable between tracks. Another thing is, previous to the spikes being fitted, when I tapped my TT plinth with the stylus sitting on a stationary record I would get a slight dull thud coming through the speakers, now I just hear my finger making contact with the plinth.

 

[dosmalo]

My experience with the Bright Star sand box was a learning experience.
I used play ground sand that I bought by 50lb bag from Lowes. Good, clean sand but what I didn't realize is that I should have made sure it was completely dry before using it in the box.
Over time when the sand did finally dry, it had almost compressed to the consistency of concrete.
Make sure the sand is as dry as possible before committing it to your box.

 

[bob06]

How about a plinth filled with sand.

 

[dosmalo]

b

View attachment 781189 How about a plinth filled with sand.

bob06 always thinks outside the box

 

[kirk57]

I built a sandbox, based upon the Brightstar design, for my BIC-based frankentable.

Given the time that would elapse between getting everything set up with/without I doubt it's possible to do a direct comparison; I will say that many times I put on a record and hear nothing to the point where I check whether I actually lowered the cueing lever. Then the music starts playing out of that silence.

This is an easy and cheap way to provide excellent TT isolation. I used genuine Lake Michigan Beach sand. We have lots of that here. Do pick out the dead fish and leaves, first.

 

[WaynerN]

Sand boxes will absorb vibrations from the table, as well as vibrations from outside influences. The one drawback is that the sand is going to settle and compress. Eventually it will have to be re-packed.

 

[Frank Sol]

I used genuine Lake Michigan Beach sand.

Hummmm.... maybe you should bag it and sell for $250 per pound... Audiophile sand

 

[bob06]

When I built my sand filled plinth I used playground sand you buy in bags. Then cooked it in the oven in a frying pan till all of the sand was completely dry. When adding sand to the plinth I would also vibrate the plinth with a palm sander helping with the settling. I did this step by step for hours. Maybe not fool proof but ended up helping a lot.

 

[majick47]

I have a large BrightStar sandbox waiting in the wings for my ultimate installation, right now the table is on a large Target wall shelf but I'm willing to bet the sand box will add more isolation. Professional broadcast and recording turntable consoles were loaded with at least a couple hundred pounds of sandbags for good measure. Also don't overlook the speakers, rigid heavy stands for bookshelf size. My smaller monitors are bolted to custom heavy steel stands and another set of smaller monitors are attached to heavy duty professional wall brackets. The large monitors are well over 100 lbs and sit on a carpeted cement slab. The pros weren't half stepping when they installed turntables and speakers.

 

[kirk57]

When I built my sand filled plinth I used playground sand you buy in bags. Then cooked it in the oven in a frying pan till all of the sand was completely dry. When adding sand to the plinth I would also vibrate the plinth with a palm sander helping with the settling. I did this step by step for hours. Maybe not fool proof but ended up helping a lot.

I couldn't see driving to the hardware store (7 miles) when all the sand I could possibly want is at the beach (0.5 miles)
I dried mine in the sun for a couple of days and then sifted it through a window screen.
No dead fish made it into the final product

Plus, it's a local product.

 

[WaynerN]

When I built my sand filled plinth I used playground sand you buy in bags. Then cooked it in the oven in a frying pan till all of the sand was completely dry. When adding sand to the plinth I would also vibrate the plinth with a palm sander helping with the settling. I did this step by step for hours. Maybe not fool proof but ended up helping a lot.

If you vibrate the sand into a real tight compression, aren't you defeating the purpose? The sand is taking energy out of the surfaces and turning it into another mechanical energy that will cause the sand to compress. It is the process of compression that is the "friend" of the turntable.

 

[chaz]

Does the amount of sand used make a difference?

For example: 2 inches of sand versus 4.5 inches.

I really have no idea. I'd imagine the extra mass must help, but the must be a point after which the returns begin to diminish.
I didn't have the means to rip down the size of the maple boards that I got, so that's s why I ended up with that much sand.

 

[dondoucette]

If you vibrate the sand into a real tight compression, aren't you defeating the purpose? The sand is taking energy out of the surfaces and turning it into another mechanical energy that will cause the sand to compress. It is the process of compression that is the "friend" of the turntable.

I'm no expert but this seems to be the point of using sand, once completely compressed I can't imagine the sand providing any more isolation.
I've been considering experiments with non newtonian fluid to see what kind of benefits are to be had.

 

[bob06]

If you vibrate the sand into a real tight compression, aren't you defeating the purpose? The sand is taking energy out of the surfaces and turning it into another mechanical energy that will cause the sand to compress. It is the process of compression that is the "friend" of the turntable.

Not sure how tight of compression I got the sand to be just by vibrating it. I was just trying to help the sand to settle so there wouldn't be a big void when finished. Like I said I don't think it's fool proof. I do know it worked great on my ROK CVS-12 that I did.

 

[elcoholic]

Absolutely

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