100 Million Subscribers

[+48V]

I thought Tidal was at 4 million, but that could be old news.

Me too. But apparently that was just some aggregated press release puffery. That 4 mil included all signups, free trials, etc.to whatever date. Once the dust settled, their current active subs is right at 1M.

 

[VinylHanger]

I don't see the thrill of Pandora. I can't play what I want, when I want. I suppose if I just want to listen to a better radio than FM, but I prefer Spotify. 15 bucks and my whole family has their own premium account. I tend to watch a lot of new music on Youtube and then at the same time pull it up to my Spotify album or playlists, then download it for play later at work. Can't do that with Pandora. I'd love to try Tidal, but with a data capped internet and my phone as my main digital source, it's not worth the 20 bucks. I have a feeling that is why they are struggling, Spotify is a bit cheaper, way cheaper with a family plan, and sounds pretty good for most listening.

 

[lizard84]

Spotify has cumulative losses to $698.1 million through 2015, losses are larger as they expand with 14, 15 posting record losses. Looks like the "new stew" has went sour.

While many are bullish on streaming ( I certainly am) no one has created a sustainable model.

In my experience, performers flock to WMNF, they love it. Live in studio content is a big part of their appeal for me and the station eclectic mix of programming, actual DJ's playing what they want when they want is refreshing. It's a target rich environment for music discovery.

 

[uofmtiger]

Me too. But apparently that was just some aggregated press release puffery. That 4 mil included all signups, free trials, etc.to whatever date. Once the dust settled, their current active subs is right at 1M.

Interesting. I am honestly surprised that this service is still around.

Spotify has cumulative losses to $698.1 million through 2015, losses are larger as they expand with 14, 15 posting record losses. Looks like the "new stew" has went sour.

While many are bullish on streaming ( I certainly am) no one has created a sustainable model.

It is why I think Apple and Google will survive in this realm and the others will eventually go out of business or be absorbed into companies that make the bulk of their revenue elsewhere (Facebook, Amazon, etc) and have music as an added benefit.

 

[hnash53]

Thanks for some input to my questions re Pandora. So it sounds like (pun intended) Pandora occupies about 3-5% of the streaming pie in terms of paid subscriptions. I read today that Pandora, by this summer, should have some sort of "on demand" plan in place.

As for OTA (on or over the air, right?) radio, I can truthfully say that I've listened to AM or FM a handful of times in the car in two years... and usually turn it off after about 5 minutes due to the effing commercials filled with lies and out and out deceptions... as well as being obnoxious. Plus, the audio quality...well, that's a contradiction in terms... OTA and audio quality? Don't belong in the same sentence. Hard to believe that AM and FM still even exist with nearly everyone walking around with a portable streaming device and the option to listen to internet radio for FREE. (Even free internet radio is better than AM/FM in terms of commercials and AQ.) Also, OTA stations rely on advertising to pay for operating costs.. I don't think that they pay a penny to musicians to play their music through the AM & FM frequencies. Indeed, music from AM and FM is FREE... although not to me. It COSTS ME to listen to poor audio quality and commercials that insult my intelligence from one moment to the next... that's why I don't listen to OTA broadcasts. (And for what it's worth (not much), I don't have pay TV either and mute all the commercials when I do choose to stream a football game... or anything else video.)

Finally, the title of the article was "Music Subscriptions Passed 100 Million in December." No mention made in the title re "on demand." The article is just talking about subscriber growth. Even the text of the article does not emphasize or mention the "on demand" criterion that other posters in this thread make reference to. Again, I stick to my first post decrying the omission of Pandora in this article. The fact that it is omitted, is unjustified. The author/s just missed the boat on this article.

FYI... I have BOTH paid subscriptions to Pandora and Spotify. Pandora trumps everyone else in terms of "music discovery" using their Music Genome Project. I recently tried Spotify's "internet radio" and it does not compare at all to Pandora's ability to curate and tailor a channel to one's musical tastes by paying attention to one's thumbs ups/downs. I am thrilled to be able to spend $15/month to have access to all the music I do at reasonable audio quality.

 

[hnash53]

Spotify has cumulative losses to $698.1 million through 2015, losses are larger as they expand with 14, 15 posting record losses. Looks like the "new stew" has went sour.

While many are bullish on streaming ( I certainly am) no one has created a sustainable model.

In my experience, performers flock to WMNF, they love it. Live in studio content is a big part of their appeal for me and the station eclectic mix of programming, actual DJ's playing what they want when they want is refreshing. It's a target rich environment for music discovery.

I have read figures such as these and am amazed that they are even still in existence. How long can they continue losing that much money? And for that many years? What are they waiting for? Does Spotify really think that they are going to get 69,800,000 more people to sign up and pay $10/month (do the math.... $10 x 69,800,000 = $698 million) to BREAK EVEN?

My biggest fear is that eventually it will all shake out, and I'll have to pay $25 a month for one service, on demand (or not) so that a streaming service can become solvent. I guess I would do that if I had to.

 

[uofmtiger]

I have read figures such as these and am amazed that they are even still in existence. How long can they continue losing that much money? And for that many years? What are they waiting for? Does Spotify really think that they are going to get 69,800,000 more people to sign up and pay $10/month (do the math.... $10 x 69,800,000 = $698 million) to BREAK EVEN?

My biggest fear is that eventually it will all shake out, and I'll have to pay $25 a month for one service, on demand (or not) so that a streaming service can become solvent. I guess I would do that if I had to.

Doubt that the mainstream prices (not the lossless/hi res niche markets) will ever hit that mark. I would bet prices will actually go the other way to move people off the freemium services. The issues for the music labels is piracy would grow as prices went up. As I mentioned above, the big players will stay in the game because it rounds out there services/ecosystems.

 

[satkinsn]

I'm torn on the issue of on-demand streaming. At 60, I have a basement full of CDs and listen to a lot of "old" music, so in a way I feel like I've done my part. But...I have a relative in the business and a couple of years ago this person had a smallish hit album on the punk/hardcore charts. I saw what the streaming royalties looked like and to describe it as "payment" is only usable because a more accurate word for the tiny money musicians get hasn't been invented. Streaming will not, IMHO, ever help sustain the middle class of musicians who are trying to put together a life by constant touring/merch sales/etc. The model doesn't work, I think.

s.

 

[satkinsn]

The year-end MusicWatch data: http://rainnews.com/musicwatch-time-spent-listening-data-sees-pandora-in-the-lead-for-2016/
Pandora, YouTube, Spotify, everybody else. Streaming has a larger share than AM/FM, and far larger than downloads/CDs. If anyone at this late date doubts that streaming is the leading way people get music, here's proof. That said, radio of the old-fashioned sort wasn't far behind.

s.

 

[chicks]

Spotify hits 50 million paid subscribers.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...llion-paid-subscribers-lifting-music-industry

 

[+48V]

Shazam is currently generating 30 million ‘clicks’ a month to music-streaming services like Spotify and Apple Music.
http://musically.com/2017/02/23/shazam-generates-30m-clicks-per-month-streaming-services/

....yet another big $tone in the "too big to fail" department.

 

[VinylHanger]

I'm torn on the issue of on-demand streaming. At 60, I have a basement full of CDs and listen to a lot of "old" music, so in a way I feel like I've done my part. But...I have a relative in the business and a couple of years ago this person had a smallish hit album on the punk/hardcore charts. I saw what the streaming royalties looked like and to describe it as "payment" is only usable because a more accurate word for the tiny money musicians get hasn't been invented. Streaming will not, IMHO, ever help sustain the middle class of musicians who are trying to put together a life by constant touring/merch sales/etc. The model doesn't work, I think.

s.

I think the value of Spotify/streaming to those types of bands is being noticed. They have a chance to be seen by me for instance, on a streaming service, while there is absolutely no chance they will be seen or have an album purchased by me. I have found a ton of new music that I would not have even had a glimmer of if not for streaming/youtube. I agree, they don't make much if anything from the service, but I would expect it gets more concert tickets sold. I have even bought a few new cd's from some of the groups that I really dig, mainly so I can get a better sounding album.

Is your relative still on Spotify? What's the band? My music tastes are eclectic, punk fits right down the middle.

 

[ldatlof]

I am 52 years old and I mainly listen to my old CD collection which I ripped to flac files. I also have a Spotify Premium account for the family which costs $15 dollars a month. While I only use it occasionally, the wife and kids use it all the time.

I just signed up for Pandora freemium and I have to say I love it. I use it in the morning when I am getting ready for work via a CCA connected to a powered Altec computer speaker so SQ is not an issue for me (this "system" is in my bathroom). Pandora's radio station feature is excellent. I don't mind the commercials and I don't have to decide what to play before I get ready in the morning which may take me up to 10 minutes.

I would be a very happy camper if Pandora and Spotify were combined - awesome user defined radio stations with an on demand service. I would pay $20/month for that.

 

[Mamrak1]

I wonder about these Spotify figures. I read that 60% of Spotify users are of the unpaying variety. That can't be good. Tidal wasn't looking well either until Sprint stepped in.

When you figure in that the musicians being played on these services make a thousandth of a cent per play in most cases, that doesn't paint a healthy picture to me.

 

[+48V]

I wonder about these Spotify figures. I read that 60% of Spotify users are of the unpaying variety. That can't be good. Tidal wasn't looking well either until Sprint stepped in.

It is what it is. At 50 million paid subscribers Spotify is the market leader. "Good" is an extremely relative term.

When you figure in that the musicians being played on these services make a thousandth of a cent per play in most cases, that doesn't paint a healthy picture to me.

This issue is also extremely relative. Consider the potential of getting millions upon millions of per track listens vs. getting a 50 cent royalty per $16 CD sold.

 

[Mamrak1]

It is what it is. At 50 million paid subscribers Spotify is the market leader. "Good" is an extremely relative term.

This issue is also extremely relative. Consider the potential of getting millions upon millions of per track listens vs. getting a 50 cent royalty per $16 CD sold.

Millions of listens at one thousandth of a cent doesn't pay the bills.

 

[Condorsat]

Millions of listens at one thousandth of a cent doesn't pay the bills.

Neither does a second hand purchase of a used CD.

 

[Alobar]

So if getting the most bucks into the artist hands is of the utmost importance, do it like I tend to do. Use streaming as a audition service or radio station, and when you discover some obscure music, buy it in cd form. Or probably better yet, try to catch one of their shows. Or stream it a few million times!

 

[+48V]

Millions of listens at one thousandth of a cent doesn't pay the bills.

Streaming royalties can, do, and will pay well for many.

NOte: "one thousandth" is nowhere near the avg payout.