1958 Philips F5C10A Tube Amp / Speaker

stevland

stevland

New Member
Hi all,

* * EDIT * *
I misnamed this thread. I should have called it Philips AC395A Tube Amp / Speaker.
Philips F5C10A refers to the console to which this speaker was a companion.

I'd like to share a rare gem and ask for some advice.

Backstory

My grandparents bequeathed me their vintage "HiFi" radiogram* along with what I would describe as a 'satellite speaker'. Long story short, for various reasons I've decided to pass on the radiogram itself but I have taken possession of the satellite speaker.

Photos

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IMG_20180324_211243

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Questions

I can't find any info about this speaker. I get the impression that it may have been a regional product... in other words, it was unique to the Canadian market and not similar to items produced by other Philips factories in other countries. But someone may want to correct me on this.

I also have the impression that a stand-alone speaker like this was a rarity in the late 1950's. Again, please correct me if I am mistaken.

It is in amazing condition, but I am not going to take any chances. My understanding is that it hasn't been used in decades. I am going to have it looked at by a professional and have all tubes and capacitors tested and replaced as required. I won't attempt to power it up until it is serviced and there is no risk of damaging it.

The radiogram that this was paired with has a mono record player, a mono AM / FM radio tuner, a mono aux port and a single set of drivers. This speaker is also clearly mono. I find it curious, of course, that it is branded as 'stereophonic'. I mentioned this to an old-time audio guy and he said something like, "Ya... stereophonic mono." But isn't that an oxymoron?! Until I started trying to wrap my brain around this I had only every considered the word 'stereo' to be applicable to 2-channel audio, and I can't find any info online that sheds light on this late 1950's usage of the term.

What kind of sound quality can I expect from this?

Is it a pretty safe assumption that the drivers will need to be replaced?

Even if the drivers are in mint condition, would a guy expect far better sound quality from modern drivers? Or is it ideal to keep the integrity of the components intact? I am curious to know everyone's thoughts on this.

I'd prefer to mod this as little as possible, but there is one thing I'm really hoping to do (if it is possible). I want to replace the single RCA jack with a panel of various inputs to make the speaker as versatile as possible. Ideally, I'd like to have everything from a 2.5mm (1/16") mono jack connector to an XLR. I'm really hoping I can plug a guitar into this! Is this a realistic ambition?

*(From what I've been able to figure out 'radiogram' was the term used to describe what was later commonly referred to as a 'stereo console', but radiograms pre-dated the mainstream consumer adoption of stereo equipment).

All thoughts, explanations and ideas are welcome.
 

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stevland said:
Is it that 800 ohm speakers aren't produced anymore?
Click to expand...

Nevermind, I did my own research. It seems that high-impedence speakers were kind of a Philips thing, and rare even in that era; they are even less-suited to solid state and thus are now completely antiquated.
 
Yes it would be very hard to find anything compatible, If you aren't happy with it after rebuilding it, you could always convert it to a different tube amp and driver. Panasonic also had a similar impedance speaker arrangement
Too bad they are so scarce, a pair would be pretty nice.
 
Stevland FYI, that powered speaker is also what's known as a companion speaker. Aside from the different ohm speakers inside them, these were actually common in the 50's. You will probably want the radio with record player as it actually has a stereo turntable.

When playing a stereo record, only one side of the program is heard (lets say the left channel) through the main unit. The companion speaker would be for the right channel. The turntable has left & right RCA jacks and a stereo cartridge. On the turntable only, one channel (let's say the left channel) plugs into the main unit with the radio. The other channel ( the right channel) has the long RCA cord that plugs into the companion speaker. The idea was so that when you played a stereo record, you could separate the speakers for better stereo imaging.

When using the turntable, you would use both the main and companion speakers albeit that they have individual controls for right and left. Since the radio is mono, it will only sound through the main unit only.

The AM & FM is mono.

When I was growing up, we had a Packard-Bell stereo with a companion speaker that was basically the same set up you have there. Ours was set up with the two cabinets at both ends of our long couch.
 
The drivers in the picture appear to be some nice alnico units which were common to low power tube consoles during the 50's and early 60's. They're often coveted by OB and guitar amp devotees. You can find similar drivers on eBay. My 12" Zenith alnico's pulled from a 1958 console shame most modern drivers. Can't see the cone but judging from the overall condition they're probably in good shape. They usually don't require reforming as the cone is robust and can extend to the edge.
 
century tek said:
When playing a stereo record, only one side of the program is heard (lets say the left channel) through the main unit. The companion speaker would be for the right channel. The turntable has left & right RCA jacks and a stereo cartridge.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your detailed response, century tek.

I found an old ad for the "Ensemble" that confirms your explanation... the turntable uses a stereo cartridge. Which would have been crazy cutting-edge, considering that the first mass-produced stereophonic 'demonstration' discs were produced only the year before, in 1957.

F311 Deluxe Philips Stereophonic High Fidelity Ensemble

F311 Deluxe Philips Stereophonic High Fidelity Ensemble

 
I surely regret gutting the Packard-Bell ensemble I grew up with. Tore it apart when I was 14. Kicking myself in the ass daily in my 50's. :D
 
Thank you to the other commenters as well.

I have to say that I thought long and hard about the radiogram. I actually obsessed over the thought of it for a few weeks. In fact, when I finally decided to pass on it, it came as a relief. But now you guys are causing me to second guess myself.

The reasons that I decided to pass on it are:
  • I live 4000 km's (2500 mi) away
  • I don't have the room for it (my living room is 11' x 12' and it is the biggest room in my house)
  • I especially don't have the space to keep the radiogram and the companion speaker in the same room
  • I recall that the turntable is in a state of disrepair... who knows how much work it would be to restore it?!
  • I also had the mistaken idea that the system was mono, which was a big turn-off for me. I can now strike this off of the list, but my other hesitations remain.
On the other hand, the radiogram (aside from the turntable) is also in very good condition. Audio considerations aside, it is a lovely piece of furniture with huge sentimental value as it was pretty much the focal point of my grandparent's living room my entire life.

If I were to take possession of it, I would likely end up storing it in my basement with the hope that I will, one day, have the proper space for it.

So the question is... which will I regret more: taking it, or not? Hmmm.

---

Either way, I am still really curious what you guys think about using this companion speaker as a practice amp for guitar. Is that a possible mod?
 
Oh yeah Packard-Bell was well known in the 50's and 60's for their consoles and audio products.

They also had some floor standing radios in the 40's.
 
Not to get too far off topic, but this is what I am keeping my eyes open for. The Gilligan's Island radio is a Packard-Bell.
th
 
You think you got console or Radiogram problems. Try 9 Fisher consoles from 1951 thru 1965 in a 1100dqft ranch house with attached garage that is converted to the living room. And that's not including the 2 maggies, a Dumont, 2 rca Mono's, a 65 Grundig, and a 63 Nordmende Isabella in the basement. I have a 1959 FISHER 610 Consolette with a 1960 FISHER 560 Companion Speaker on either side of the TV Stand that has my X-101-B, Zero 100 TT, and KM-60 Tuner on it. This is powering a pair of Klipsch Heresy's. But guess which I listen to more. The consolette and companion. My '58 Fisher C-800 Contemporary is in my bedroom. I don't listen to the lowboys (63 FISHER Executive, 64 Custom electra VII, and a 65 FUTURA VI)as they are buried in stuff I'm moving or getting rid of.

A 10x12 room is almost perfect for these low wattage units. Too bad you're now 2500 miles away from the control console. They sound pretty damned good with the companion speaker. And don't poo poo mono. I listen more to mono recordings on my consolette and contemporary in a week than I do on the stereo setup in 6 months.
 
Cool extension speaker. Lots of people who decorate with mid-century modern would give their eye teeth for it. It's a shame to break up the set, but I more than understand.

I'd try to restore the amplifier in your extension speaker and keep modifications minimal and reversible. I've got a pair of those Phillips AD3800 in the 8 ohm version. They're quite nice for music, but I don't think they're up to guitar duty.

You can add greater flexibility by the addition of a preamplifier - you'll either use a mono preamplifier and stereo-to-mono adapters on your stereo sources, or a stereo preamplifier and a stereo-to-mono adapter on your preamp. I'd be tempted to go for a period-correct mono preamp. It'd match the speaker and, being mono, there are plenty of affordable options. You can then adapt out whatever kind of input you need from the multiple RCA inputs on the preamp.

Since the stock extension speaker has plenty of gain to work with, as well as tone controls, you could use a passive input switch box instead of a preamp. Realistic, TCC, Psyclone, etc. made tons of them over the years. Going DIY could be an interesting route, as you'd have control over the cosmetics and input jacks, as well as building your stereo-to-mono converter and balanced-to-unbalanced balun (if you need XLR) right into the box.

The next time I need a stereo-to-mono converter (which will be soon, as I'm restoring a EV Regency / Bell Sound 2200B combo) I'll be using this transformer-based adapter. The same one is available as a bare board sans chassis.

For inspiration, here's a Silvertone extension speaker that kicks out the jams in my living room.
 
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