2105 vs. 2100

[crazytubepower]

Well here is my back round. I am 15 years old and curently own klipsch rf-3's at 98db 1w/1m. I am an amp whore and am thinking about getting a mcintosh to pair with my klipsch. I have chosen ss for price, but i would like to bi-amp my speakers using mc-30's for the hf and 2100 for the lf. I listen to classic rock, jazz, and classical.

So here is my question. I know the 2105 cannot be bridged, and costs about $1000 mint. And I have seen some mint 2100's go for sale for $500, so I know I dont need the power, but I was thinking about two 2100's in bridged. I never listen above 90 db, and i mean never. But the head room would be important.

I do love the look of the 2105 however. So i guess my question is, would the 105 wpc, I know it is more than that, be enough, it has the look. Or should I opt for 2 mc2100's for killer head room, plus I will still have a great look, but no pretty dials.

Again my budget for the amps is $1000 at most, so with that in mind, what do you guys say?

CTP

 

[mike175gr]

Wow! I never had these choices when I was 15.... Good for you! I would get one 2105 and not fuss about to much about it.

 

[N7SC]

I got a MC 2105 back when I was 16. A budget of $2000 at HiFI Associates, the McIntosh dealer in S. Fla. was my 16th birthday present from my Mother. Based on many years experience with that amp, I'd say that you only need one amp. Whether it is a MC 2105 with the pretty blue meters, or a MC 2100, is something you have to decide. They are both superb amplifiers. And, FWIW, the look of the MC 2105 is the best that McIntosh ever achieved, in my opinion. However, a MC 2100 = extra $500 to spend on music. . . But then, those beautiful, clean (no watts scale), just-the-right-size meters and tastefully asymmetrical panel design are a delight just to gaze at sometimes. So. . . not an easy decision.

A tough decision, but, on the up-side, it is win-win :thmbsp:

Enjoy!

 

[ron-c]

Hey 15,

You can not 'passively' bi-amp using tube amps without an electronic crossover between the preamp and the amps. The tube amps will make sound of course but they will run hot and have higher distortion. Not happy.
If your MC30s are running correctly, which means new power supply caps and signal caps plus good tubes they should be about 40 watts per channel and have no problem running the speakers you have. How are your soldering skills? It is easy to work on the MC30s.
If you want to go SS either the 2100 or 2105 will work. The tube amps are maybe more satisfying at low volumes but will not provide the same high volume kick as SS.

Ron-C

 

[crazytubepower]

This is true, I was thinking about running both and switching when I am in the MOOD, the only tube amps I've heard were 200 wpc class a manleys! May by those instead. Only $4000 when he paid something like $10000 or $12000 in the late 80's! Killer deal

 

[abone1999]

I'm confused....is the 2100 a tube or a solid state amp? I seem to come across references to it being both.

 

[Number 9]

Solid-state.

 

[crazytubepower]

It is ss, but with a very "tubie" sould. This is due to mcintosh's autoformers. That is why I belive it desirves to be part of my collection!

 

[Brian]

I have the MC250 (nonmetered version of the 2505, little brother of the MC2105) and the 2105 and a 2105. I love the looks of the 2105 witht he meters and it matches very so nicely with the C28 and MR77. But I do not need the meters not the glass not the lights. I ran the 250 24/7 on for 30 years before getting the 2105 and it looked beautiful either on display. The 2100 has more versitility and is simpler since it does not have the metering circuits. They are the same amp and sound the same. Since you feel you want to possibly bridge them, the 2100 simply makes more sense. As for the $500 savings per amp, at $1000 total think of that turntable and lps, a towards a better preamp, etc. In fact for that $1000 you could up the Rf-3s. A question arises as to how much do you need:

98 1watt
101 2 watts
104 4 watts
107 8 watts
110 16 watts
113 32 watts
116 62 watts
119 124 watts (about what a 2100 will put out)
121 248 watts

FWIW, including the 2100, do not sound as good as in bridged mode losing detail and many times soundstage as well as reduceddampening factor.

What is the max SPL the speakers will sustain? Remember that as you increase spl, the above does not actually happen since there is driver compression that requires more power to overcome and at a point if the vc does not melt the compression simply can not be overcome. Also, remember that at theese levels you will soon need a hearing aid.

If you need/want more SPL, why not sell the RF-s and move up to a pair of Cornwalls or better LaScalas. The LaScalas I think are over 100 db/1 watt and do very nicely with the MC30s

Another alternative, for power would be a MC2300 or 2500. 2300s in good condition hit about $1,500.

It is great to see someone of your age already appreciating Mc. When you become an investment broker, contact me. you have a head on your shoulders at least with this equipment.

 

[MTY]

I always thought the MC2100 was the best value in Mcintosh amps. It seems to go for a lot less than the MC2105. Although I think a mint MC2105 is probably a better investment than a mint MC2100 simply because the more desireable items seem to always become collector's items
The meterless amps like the MC2100 and MC250 had slightly better damping factors than the metered versions. Although I doubt you could tell the difference sonically.
I was about your age when I got my first Mcintosh amps, a rough pair of MC60's.
My father and I restored them.


Mike

 

[Brian]

In terms of Mc value my votes go to the 2100 and MX110. As for return on investment, would not wager but then again I do not factor that in when I decide to buy since life itself is speculative.

 

[Dflip]

If you need/want more SPL, why not sell the RF-s and move up to a pair of Cornwalls or better LaScalas. The LaScalas I think are over 100 db/1 watt and do very nicely with the MC30s
------------
The MC30's are loud enough with Cornwalls. They take about 10W to produce really loud volume and the MC-30's put out a bit more than 40W. Unless of course you are trying to run them in an auditorium. For the average person, they are more than enough power. Mind you the Cornwalls are a great jazz speaker, an okay rock and roll speaker.

 

[crazytubepower]

Well, i will be buying k-horns early next year. 104db 1w/1m. I never listen over 90db! And I mean never, my hearing is too good a thing to waste. I already have amps for spl thought. Like 500wpc pro amps, that sound great, better than krell IMO. But off topic. My only tubes are pre-amps and have yet to experiance tube amp's.

 

[goldear]

Man, I thought that I was doing pretty well when I purchased my first REALLY good amp, an $600 Adcom 555 ,when I was in high school. I could only DREAM of that sort of equipment when I was your age.

Why K-Horns??? With a 200WPC amp, you certainly don't need ridiculously efficient speakers like that.

Those speakers might have been something pretty special 40 years ago, but certainly not today. I heard a pair recently, and I was very dissapointed with the lack of transparency, lack of detail, and absense of any ability to image. I will admit that the overall ballance was nice, and that they could play exceptionally loud, but that is about the extent of thier virtues IMO.

I know that my Dad absolutely swears by thoses things, but he is approaching 80, and I think that this design past it's prime more than 30 years ago.

 

[Brian]

A set of k'horns can be very wonderful but they require the right room and mating electronics. I've heard some systems where they were in rooms not large enough for Advents or had megawatt amps on them. A 200 watt amp is not the way to go for k'horns. Remember 1 watt will drive them louder than most persons are comfortable with. SS amps have a low watt issue that tubes do not exhibit and that is high distortion components. As the power increases these components come down to a floor and then increase near the max power level of the amp. I am not aware of any companies that directly published low level specs. Usuallly only discoverable if the company published the distortion curves. Usually the higher the power the amp these low power distortion amounts will not reach min until higher power levels as opposed to low powered amps. The only advantage of a higher powered amp may be if it operates in class A and does not switch over to AB until as point above where you are using the amp.

1 (but not the absolute best) of the best sounding k'horn systems I ever heard was in an open concept house where they were in the main room. They were being driven by a Fisher power amp, the model I did not know, but it had 6bq5 outputs and was like a Dyna ST35. They show up from time to time on eBay and appear all to be have pulled rom consoles. The preamp was a ARC SP3A.

K'horns while extremely efficient are not about high SPL but high quality sound using low powered components. Your MC30s will be more than sufficient to drive these:

104 1watt
107 2 watts
110 4 watts
113 8 watts
116 16 watts
119 32 watts

Unlike dynamic drivers, horns do not exhibit as much driver compression.

While the vintage crowd has access to many units and therefore can do a lot of equipment rolling, there are some basic tenants to remember and 1 of them is that big power was not the norm and only became available late in the game as SS became cheaper per watt. Most vintage speakers were designed either before this and many speakers had to be pumped up to survive through the use of ferrofluids and larger VC. Klipsch is an example of a great speaker never designed for high power amps but designed to get the most from low powered amps.

 

[Ballvalve]

Man, I thought that I was doing pretty well when I purchased my first REALLY good amp, an $600 Adcom 555 ,when I was in high school. I could only DREAM of that sort of equipment when I was your age.

Why K-Horns??? With a 200WPC amp, you certainly don't need ridiculously efficient speakers like that.

Those speakers might have been something pretty special 40 years ago, but certainly not today. I heard a pair recently, and I was very dissapointed with the lack of transparency, lack of detail, and absense of any ability to image. I will admit that the overall ballance was nice, and that they could play exceptionally loud, but that is about the extent of thier virtues IMO.

I know that my Dad absolutely swears by thoses things, but he is approaching 80, and I think that this design past it's prime more than 30 years ago.

I wish i had listened to my dad more often.

 

[crazytubepower]

well k-horns need to be in the right room! and the k-horns are for the mc 30's. Anyway thanks yal

 

[ron-c]

A properly designed amp should not have an issue with distortion at low, below one watt, power. McIntosh do not have an issue at low power but you may hear the background thermal noise floor with very efficient speakers on the older model amps. We have a VOT horn we use to listen for this at the factory.

Ron-C

 

[Cleve]

Isn't the 2100 the same exact amplifier as the 2105, sans meters?

 

[ron-c]

Yes, they are the same but the 2100 can be run in mono. These are powerful sounding amps so the doubling of power is not that big a change on most speakers. if you had very inefficient speakers this might be more important.

Ron-C