A bit of Danish for breakfast -- trying out my first Ortofon cartridge.

illinoisteve

Super Member
Some weeks ago, finding an Ortofon cartridge with a bad stylus for sale on ebay, and with few others seeming to take an interest in it, I decided to wade into the nearly non-existent bidding and picked it up cheap. From time to time, I had heard the Ortofon name tossed about by people who seemed to think it was pretty special, but lolling around happily in or between Pick-Stant-eringland and Shureland, I wasn't overly impressed. But finally curiosity got the better of me. Of course, not knowing beans about Ortofons, which I keep wanting to spell with a "PH" instead of an "F," I really didn't know if the cartridge I was ordering was one of their lauded ones.

Anyway, the cartridge came. I tried my hand at untwisting the very end of the cantilever on the original Ortofon FF 10 XE needle, but made it worse. After some weeks went by, during which I tested the coils and also verified I could get something that sounded right from brushing the bad cantilever with the cartridge mounted, I decided to get the Pfanstiehl 4540-DEV (.3 x .7 mil elliptical) which TVOM recommends as the replacement. Original Ortofons are also still available, but not an investment I would want to start with. The recommended VTF for the original (and the Pfanny) is 1.7 - 2.3 grams. I tried 2, but as the cart seemed to sit too low at that setting, I lowered it to about 1.8, which has seemed to work just fine. No mistracking. No sibilance.

This morning I'm trying out the cartridge with the Pfanny. On the version of Holst's "The Planets" with Sir Adrian Boult and The New Philharmonia Orchestra, I was pleasantly surprised to hear how clear and bell like all of the "high tinklies" of notes played on celeste and high register percussion instruments were. Obviously most of the harmonics of those notes were coming through, keeping them sounding very much alive. The channel separation was very good. The entire mid and upper range seemed detailed and open. The bass didn't seem to stand out particularly, but those instruments don't seem to be closely miked in that recording.

Moving on to Stephane Grappelli's "Just One of Those Things," this cartridge and stylus seems to do an excellent job of rendering an acoustic jazz quintet. Again, the detail and separation is impressive. High-pitched percussion is close to sounding in the room with me. Everything in the midrange sounds very clear and open and resonant. The bass sounds very good in the passages when it is especially featured, though is not as present in other passages as I might hear with my Stanton 881S cartridge, but then this was considered a "Bargain Cartridge" was it not when it was first available?

I have tried to do more research on this, and related, Ortofons this morning. There isn't a lot of detail about the cartridges themselves, separate from how they were sold with particular needles, at vinylengine. The FF cartridges and the VMS cartridges seem very similar, though some of the VMS models called for different loading. According to Ortofon, LP Gear, and TVOM, proper replacement needles for a cartridge originally sporting the FF10XE needle would be needles that also fit a VMS model, like the Ortofon VMS3E needle.

Researching some of the old AK threads mentioning the Ortofon FF carts, I find threads that include more than one poster calling them very good and very under-rated cartridges of their time.

Postscript: Just getting around to "How High the Moon" on side two of the Grappelli album, one of my favorite needle test tracks, and I must admit that I could put together several needle cartridge combos, with my previous stable of cartridges, that would not sound as good as I'm hearing. And only a couple of combos I could throw in would sound clearly better in some aspect. Dang it, now I have to consider whether I eventually want to spring for an Original Ortofon needle for this thing -- 'cause maybe this cart can sound even better! Maybe next Christmas....


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Like Pickering, Shure, and Stanton, Ortofon has manufactured hundreds of models of cartridges over many years. Glad you found a nice one!

Ortofon was also one of the pioneers in moving coil cartridges, btw.

:music:
 
Like Pickering, Shure, and Stanton, Ortofon has manufactured hundreds of models of cartridges over many years. Glad you found a nice one!

Ortofon was also one of the pioneers in moving coil cartridges, btw.

:music:
And the only one of the four making better cartridges today. Some kinda expensive.
 
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For those of us who grew up in Europe, it's pretty much the other way around. Everybody had an Ortofon at one point or another. They came factory installed on Dual TTs for many years. Shures, too, and they also sold well individually, but Stanton/Pickering was less known, as was Empire, and ADC practically unheard of.

Partly because of the symbiosis with Dual's ULM arms, they tend to be of high-ish compliance. Until the introduction of the 2M series, which are basically cosmetically changed OMs with slightly stiffer suspensions. OM styli will in fact fit a 2M body, although it looks weird. Now, why anybody would pay $100 for a 2M Red when the practically identical OM5E is still available for less than half is beyond me.
 
For those of us who grew up in Europe, it's pretty much the other way around. Everybody had an Ortofon at one point or another. They came factory installed on Dual TTs for many years. Shures, too, and they also sold well individually, but Stanton/Pickering was less known, as was Empire, and ADC practically unheard of.

Partly because of the symbiosis with Dual's ULM arms, they tend to be of high-ish compliance. Until the introduction of the 2M series, which are basically cosmetically changed OMs with slightly stiffer suspensions. OM styli will in fact fit a 2M body, although it looks weird. Now, why anybody would pay $100 for a 2M Red when the practically identical OM5E is still available for less than half is beyond me.

This test is with the cartridge on my Dual 1229, so the cartridge may feel quite at home; however, in the US, I think the Pickering XV-15 cartridge was a common pairing with the 1229 when it was sold at audio equipment stores.

Continued test commentary:
* It sounded great on Stevie Wonder's "Inner Visions" album. In my recollection of that album with my Shure Era IV M97 with a .2x.7 mil retip by Needlestein, the sound was a bit smoother as opposed to being as detailed, but the bass was more present in the room with me. It would be hard to say which rendition is better, unless one calls detail the critical factor.
* I just tried side one of my Realistic "Stereo Demonstration Record." Note that this is not a tracking obstacle course test record; rather, it is supposed to make the stereo sound of whatever phono set up you are buying at you local Radio Shack sound good! The side did sound excellent.
* One other nice thing, despite our very springy floors, the dog can jump off of the couch onto the floor and not cause the record to skip. In fact I don't even seem to be able to hear the sound change at all when that happens. A tribute to the suspension on this particular Pfanny generic replacement?
 
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The FF range I think was the budget models, while VMS were the better ones. Ortofon seems to make a good suspension in their styli and the aftermarkets usually are lacking. I've had the full VMS range from 10 to 30 and they are all very nice cartridges, though again the step up from 10 to 20 is quite significant. 20 to 30 not so much, they sound nearly identical, the 30 getting the nod for better tracking. I've had 3 aftermarket styli, one from TTN which clearly seems made by Jico, though probably not identical to what you'd get if you buyed directly from them. I didn't like it, it made the cartridge sound a bit harsh. It's subtle, but there's a certain coldness to the sound that none of the Ortofon made styli had. The 2 other aftermarkets I have no idea where they came from and got them used with cartridge bodies / turntables. One of them is actually pretty nice.

The VMS20 stylus can still be found sometimes for decent price, it would basically equal OM20 or 2M Blue, though some people seem to think the VMS are better cartridges. Can't comment on that since I haven't owned an Ortofon from either OM or 2M ranges. I think Ortofon only makes VMS3E and FF10Xe (or something like that...) styli anymore, which are bonded ellipticals. No idea how they sound, but probably better than most aftermarkets. Not sure what separates them from VMS10, which is a nice sounding cartridge on it's own right but not that special.

Be vary of shopping for styli though, Ortofon cartridges of this period were VERY confusing. The VMS seems to be some sort of induced magnet design I think, the styli have a magnet fixed at the root of the tubing which goes into the cartridge body. But there were earlier M-super series cartridges which don't have that magnet - some of them fit into the VMS series bodies, but will produce no sound. Then there is another M20 model, which seems was some sort of Dual special - that stylus won't fit into VMS cartridges without plastic surgery, but otherwise works well and sounds identical to VMS20. I think the M20 body was shorter to fit better in some TTs like Duals - mounting a VMS-series cartridge into an old idler Dual is close to impossible because the cartridge body is too long and you run out of room for wires (maybe that is overstatement, if I recall correctly I got it mounted but it was very awkward and had to be careful to not create shorts with the wire plugs). Then there is the plastic plug that goes into the cartridge bodies - there were various shapes to prevent cross-fitting styli between the different series - but most FF cartridges I've seen seem to have a rectangular hole, which means they'll happily take all or at least most plug shapes, meaning you can upgrade to VMS styli. But some FF-styli won't fit into the VMS body without modifications because the VMS cartridges have an hourglass shaped insert at the beginning of the plughole. If all that sounds confusing, it's because it is....

Btw. the VMS range like a highish capacitance of about 400pF phonostage and cabling combined, for most even frequency response. They are very responsive to changes in capacitance, but luckily never sound bad at least with the OEM styli. With lower capacitance they get sort of overly airy and open sounding, but not in a way that makes them sound bright or harsh. The effect can be quite pleasant actually if not entirely neutral.
 
By the way, that Boult/New Philharmonia "Planets" is one of my go-to test records, as well. If Mars and Saturn don't put the fear of (the) God(s) in you, something is wrong with the setup!
 
I found an FF 15 XE II a while ago with a broken cantilever and was glad to see that Ortofon stylus was still available. I think I got mine from LP Gear for about $40. I think it sounds excellent on the Elac 50h. Have it tracking at 2 grams, and seems to be a pretty good match with the arm.
 
I can't complain if the FF carts were the budget jobs, considering how this one sounds!

From what you say, having an FF body actually gives me the most flexibility in stylus use.

While the current production best OEM stylus would seem to be the Ortofon VMS3E, it looks like (judging by TVOM's info) the top needle of the series would have been the D30E II Fine Line with a VTF of 1-1.6 grams. I wonder if NOS copies of that ever turn up?



The FF range I think was the budget models, while VMS were the better ones. Ortofon seems to make a good suspension in their styli and the aftermarkets usually are lacking. I've had the full VMS range from 10 to 30 and they are all very nice cartridges, though again the step up from 10 to 20 is quite significant. 20 to 30 not so much, they sound nearly identical, the 30 getting the nod for better tracking. I've had 3 aftermarket styli, one from TTN which clearly seems made by Jico, though probably not identical to what you'd get if you buyed directly from them. I didn't like it, it made the cartridge sound a bit harsh. It's subtle, but there's a certain coldness to the sound that none of the Ortofon made styli had. The 2 other aftermarkets I have no idea where they came from and got them used with cartridge bodies / turntables. One of them is actually pretty nice.

The VMS20 stylus can still be found sometimes for decent price, it would basically equal OM20 or 2M Blue, though some people seem to think the VMS are better cartridges. Can't comment on that since I haven't owned an Ortofon from either OM or 2M ranges. I think Ortofon only makes VMS3E and FF10Xe (or something like that...) styli anymore, which are bonded ellipticals. No idea how they sound, but probably better than most aftermarkets. Not sure what separates them from VMS10, which is a nice sounding cartridge on it's own right but not that special.

Be vary of shopping for styli though, Ortofon cartridges of this period were VERY confusing. The VMS seems to be some sort of induced magnet design I think, the styli have a magnet fixed at the root of the tubing which goes into the cartridge body. But there were earlier M-super series cartridges which don't have that magnet - some of them fit into the VMS series bodies, but will produce no sound. Then there is another M20 model, which seems was some sort of Dual special - that stylus won't fit into VMS cartridges without plastic surgery, but otherwise works well and sounds identical to VMS20. I think the M20 body was shorter to fit better in some TTs like Duals - mounting a VMS-series cartridge into an old idler Dual is close to impossible because the cartridge body is too long and you run out of room for wires (maybe that is overstatement, if I recall correctly I got it mounted but it was very awkward and had to be careful to not create shorts with the wire plugs). Then there is the plastic plug that goes into the cartridge bodies - there were various shapes to prevent cross-fitting styli between the different series - but most FF cartridges I've seen seem to have a rectangular hole, which means they'll happily take all or at least most plug shapes, meaning you can upgrade to VMS styli. But some FF-styli won't fit into the VMS body without modifications because the VMS cartridges have an hourglass shaped insert at the beginning of the plughole. If all that sounds confusing, it's because it is....

Btw. the VMS range like a highish capacitance of about 400pF phonostage and cabling combined, for most even frequency response. They are very responsive to changes in capacitance, but luckily never sound bad at least with the OEM styli. With lower capacitance they get sort of overly airy and open sounding, but not in a way that makes them sound bright or harsh. The effect can be quite pleasant actually if not entirely neutral.
 
I found an FF 15 XE II a while ago with a broken cantilever and was glad to see that Ortofon stylus was still available. I think I got mine from LP Gear for about $40. I think it sounds excellent on the Elac 50h. Have it tracking at 2 grams, and seems to be a pretty good match with the arm.

My other turntable is an ELAC Miracord 50H, so that is good news.
 
I can't complain if the FF carts were the budget jobs, considering how this one sounds!

From what you say, having an FF body actually gives me the most flexibility in stylus use.

While the current production best OEM stylus would seem to be the Ortofon VMS3E, it looks like (judging by TVOM's info) the top needle of the series would have been the D30E II Fine Line with a VTF of 1-1.6 grams. I wonder if NOS copies of that ever turn up?

They are like hens teeth.
 
I can't speak to the older models but I have three Ortofon cartridges, one MM and two MC, from their current lineup and I like them.
 
While the current production best OEM stylus would seem to be the Ortofon VMS3E, it looks like (judging by TVOM's info) the top needle of the series would have been the D30E II Fine Line with a VTF of 1-1.6 grams. I wonder if NOS copies of that ever turn up?

I think the D30FL was discontinued earlier than the D20E mkII, which makes them a lot rarer. The D20E mkII was actually made until 2010 or so I think... I've only seen one D30FL NOS. For SQ I don't feel there was much of a difference between the 20 & 30, and both track excellent but the 30 was a lot more forgiving of imperfect vinyl and should give longer mileage. I moved on to an Ortofon MC and could definitely hear the similarity, I just felt the MC10 Supreme had better dynamics and general clarity, but all were tonally very accurate to my ears.
 
Now, I've gone full-frontal Ortofon!

About a week ago, I snagged an NOS Ortofon FF15E needle off of the auction site, and I got it mounted on this Ortofon cart this morning. Let me remind you that the cart came with a screwed-up Ortofon FF10XE stylus on it, and I ordered a Pfannstiehl 4540-DEV to first make the cartridge playable again (TVOM and other sites call for that as the generic replacement for the FF10XE). The FF15E is actually part of the 538 (not 540) series of needles in common replacement numbering, but as muovimies explained, my particular cartridge may have the most adaptable receptacle shape if one wanted to try either a 538, 539, or 540 needle on it. While what was left of the packaging for this new-to-me FF15E did not include any VTF information, from what I can find, all of the 538 and 540 elliptical styli were .3x.7 designs calling for 1.7-2.3 or 1-3 gram VTFs. In fact, TVOM still offers the original NF15E, which calls for that VTF, and my packaging says this new needle can replace it, too, though the needle is marked with the FF15E.

Before trying out the new needle, I played a side of Ian & Sylvia's "Greatest Hits" (Vanguard) with the Pfannstiehl, and I have to say to say that it sounded very good. Then I swapped on the FF15E. Surprisingly, I had to rebalance the arm. Apparently there is a bit more weight in the Ortofon than in the Pfanny. I reset the VTF (I'm going with about two hairs above 2 grams), and played the side again. There WAS a difference. At first it struck me as a *more full-bodied* sound, perhaps with the lower-mid-range sounds coming forward more. The treble was still well-detailed, but groove dirt ticks when heard were more subdued. Perhaps the Pfannie's brightness "enhanced" those imperfections a bit more. As I kept listening, I found tracks where I felt there was more bass, not just that it was rendered differently. The new Ortofon needle definitely sounds BETTER, but I wouldn't say that the Pfanny sounds bad. It certainly will be good to have as a back-up to swap back on whenever I want to play a rougher condition record without swapping to a different cartridge mounted on a different cartridge holder. While the Pfanny does pick up some groove noise more than the Ortofon, it really isn't terrible in that regard compared to some other options I have.

Considering that I got this NOS Ortofon for right around the price of the Pfanny (including the shipping for each), I feel pretty happy about this development.
 
I've continued to playing the cart with the Ortofon FF15E needle. I must say that it is really growing on me. I've been listening to records of several genres, and everything so far is sounding good. None of the records is revealing some kind of failing, as could happen, of course. The channel separation seems great on everything. Sometimes this is a function of how an album is recorded, so perhaps I can't attribute all of that impression to the cartridge...but things are trending toward that conclusion.
 
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