A real eye-opener!

Farmhand

Super Member
I've always been limited by budget to "wannabe" guitars that are "okay", but not great. My current electric is a Jay Turser Les Paul knockoff. Beautiful guitar, but I knew the sound wasn't quite there.

Last night I finally got to play an honest-to-goodness Les Paul (Studio model) and WOW- it was like finally having the right tool for the job! I was playing it through a Bad Monkey overdrive into a Peavey MACE amp, which has six 6L6s in it. The whole setup belongs to the son of my Sunday night music partner.

So now I'm jonesing to replace the guts in my guitar. That sound was just fantastic.
 
Just my 2 cents worth… Don’t up grade you JT..save up your money then sell what you have and buy what you really want… A GIBSON LP Studio.
I see zero point in putting expensive electronics in a cheap guitar you will not be happy and you won’t get your money back out of it.
The Gibson Les Paul sound is the sum of many things it’s more than just the electronics.
There are 3 used Gibson LP studios on my local CL staring at $600..
There is an old saying you can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear….Same goes for Gibson Les Paul’s
If you can’t swing a used Gibson then look for one the used Epi Les Pauls that came from the factory with Gibson pups or that somebody else already upgraded. That way it’s their loss and your gain.
Just my experience…do what makes you happy.
Pq
 
Farmhand,

Glad you're likin' the sound of the new Lester.

Maybe you should change the title of this thread to "A real ear-opener!" ? :music:
 
Just my 2 cents

Get a good guitar (way under $500, easy) and spend the money on upgrading the electronics (pickups, caps and pots) and getting a good amp or three. I think you will be way ahead.

Gibson is just a name on a headstock. I own several Gibson and Fender USA products, but I've owned Agile LPs that were every bit as good at $200 used. You can get a new Agile made-to-order with a solid maple cap, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with Epiphone, Hamer, or Yamaha. A used Carvin is better built than any of the big names, but the necks are a bit different.

The new Gibsons are not what they were 15 years ago IMHO unless you get into the really expensive stuff.

If money is NOT an issue, then sure, get a "real" Les Paul. I was 50 years old before I got my bucket LP, a 2001 cherry sunburst LP Standard from when they made the backs out of one piece of mahogany. The new ones are two-piece backs. Some of the fretboards are no longer rosewood.

A nice tube amp will really respond to your technique, especially if you can open up the volume knob a bit. It does not have to be big (<30 watts), smaller is better, but this is where to put your money.

Good luck with your tone quest.
 
I was playing it through a Bad Monkey overdrive into a Peavey MACE amp, which has six 6L6s in it.

I wonder was it the guitar or pedal and amp?
Before doing anything with your JT I suggest try plugging into your friends pedal and amp..they are probably the bigger part of the tone equation.
 
I see zero point in putting expensive electronics in a cheap guitar you will not be happy and you won’t get your money back out of it.
The Gibson Les Paul sound is the sum of many things it’s more than just the electronics.
Pq

Agreed 100%. What you've heard is that GIBSON sound. Can't have it by upgrading electronics or pickups on JT. If you look around, you will find good bargains. Last two Les Paul's I bought, I got early 2000's no-case Gibson studio in well used condition for $350, set it up straight and sounds as good as the used Standard I bought for a grand another time. Deals are out there, you just have to look and be patient.

When I was a student and in my 20's, I wasted so much money buying Chipsons and MIM Strats thinking that I can't afford US made. Well, if I had waited and saved up, I could've bought one of any guitar I wanted.
 
Agreed 100%. What you've heard is that GIBSON sound. Can't have it by upgrading electronics or pickups on JT. If you look around, you will find good bargains. Last two Les Paul's I bought, I got early 2000's no-case Gibson studio in well used condition for $350, set it up straight and sounds as good as the used Standard I bought for a grand another time. Deals are out there, you just have to look and be patient.

When I was a student and in my 20's, I wasted so much money buying Chipsons and MIM Strats thinking that I can't afford US made. Well, if I had waited and saved up, I could've bought one of any guitar I wanted.


Dang, you can make a decent extra buck flipping Studios if you can get them for near $350.

I do stand by my thoughts that it's not what's on the headstock that matters. It's in the player's hands and head. An alder body three single-coil pickup guitar pretty much sounds the same regardless who makes it. Same for a double-humbucker mahogany body, maple-capped guitar.

My plywood Kramer Strat clone sounds exactly the same as my USA Strat. I will say that the frets and hardware (tuners, bridge) are much better on the Fender. The LP clones I've had were much closer to the Gibsons in quality.

I do own several Gibsons and USA made Fenders, as well as a Carvin and a couple imports, so it's not like I have guitar envy or anything.

Just my 2 cents.
 
I'm pleasantly surprised at the sound of this Turser through what's now a pretty darn respectable amp. I just sit and strum and noodle and appreciate.
That's the guitar in question in my avatar; the figure of the wood is so stunning that I can't give it up. I see $2k+ Les Paul Plus Tops that don't scream "FIGURED MAPLE!!!!!" the way this one does.
I'm selling some goats and will have some "fun money" from that- so an electronics swap-out might be in the picture soon.
I agree that the player's hands and head have a lot to do with it. I once heard someone say (in this same sort of conversation) that "if you handed B.B. King any guitar, he'd still sound like B.B. King." And that's true- I know people who have Custom Shop Taylors and can play two songs. I know people who never seem to have a guitar of their own and can play like dynamite all night long. I strive to be somewhere in the middle.
 
Farmhand,

I saw your amp thread - congrats on your purchase. My thoughts as a novice player/hobbyist:

I have an '83 MIJ Squier Bullet - it is remarkably well made. I have it loaded with Seymour Duncan SSL-2, a 5 position super switch and a TBX tone control. It sounds and plays great - way better than me. I also learned a great deal about guitars by working on mine so extensively. If you have the money for the upgrades, but not a new instrument, have fun and learn. You may not ever recover the full value of your investment, but what kind of price is there for fun and knowledge?

Having said that, I will own a fine guitar someday. It will be a great deal. At the moment, I am learning the differences between pickup technology, tone woods, hardware, etc. I have a Yamaha Pacifica 611 hfm with a Seymour Duncan P90 neck/humbucker bridge, the Bullet, a Fender Telecaster Scorpion MIK with Lace Sensors, a no-name Telecaster, an Austin Telecaster and a Squier Affinity Stratocaster. All were purchased very inexpensively while I learn both how to play better and what I like to play.

Same thing with amplifiers: Yamaha THR10, Crate Vintage Club 2110, Crate Vintage Club 5310, Epiphone Valve Jr. Head/112 cabinet, Mesa Boogie Transatlantic 15 and a big Allen Organ Gyrophonic 212 cabinet. I have reflowed the solder joints and made some modifications on the 5310, done some tube rolling in the Valve Jr, have work planned for the 2110, swapped speakers in the Allen Organ cabinet.

Yes, I could have purchased one really good amp and guitar, but I am having loads of fun and don't think that I would have known what I like without experimentation. I do intend to thin out the herd a bit this summer.

Good luck in your quest for good tone.
 
I know people who have Custom Shop Taylors and can play two songs. I know people who never seem to have a guitar of their own and can play like dynamite all night long. I strive to be somewhere in the middle.[/QUOTE said:
It's a good place to be. The people in the second group won't improve much without guitars to play.
 
I tell you what, some of the Jay Turser guitars are serious players. The only thing they suffer from is cheap cast parts and pickups as well as crappy pots. Change all that and you have a stage warrior. I had a Warlord in transparent purple flame finish. I changed the tuners to Grover's, changed the volume pot to CTS 500k and rewired it with better quality wire. Then a Seymour Duncan Invader pup was installed in the bridge postion. I left the stock neck pup because it had passable tone. I used a Gibson 3 way switch from one of my old Les Paul's. Here is a old pic of it with my old Dean FBD ML

y1eIoC7.jpg
 
I was looking at a replacement Seymour Duncan/Switchcraft/Orange Drop kit, but I don't know if I need the pickups. Nicer pots, switch and wiring, for sure.
I got to play out with this amp and, with the amp mic'd through a PA, I was just loving what I heard. It was just slightly louder than I could keep under control. I felt like one of those Lamborghini drivers who wipes out during a burnout.
 
I was looking at a replacement Seymour Duncan/Switchcraft/Orange Drop kit, but I don't know if I need the pickups.
Changing the pickups makes the biggest difference sound wise as far as I'm concerned.
If you really like the sound of that LP studio maybe you should give Gibson pickups or similar copies a try. Find out what's in the Les Paul and try a similar model.

I'm not saying other changes won't make a difference though. I just replaced a nut on one guitar with genuine bone and it was a big improvement.
The material used in the bridge such as aluminum vs. brass can also have a profound effect.
 
Just like with our stereo gear, our motorcycles, and whatever else- there's always a little more tinkering to be done, another "what if?"
I'd like to put longer-shafted pots in, since the knobs sit right on the guitar unless I pull them loose a bit.
I replaced the tuners as soon as I got the guitar, because the stock ones were junk.
I'm keeping an eye out for a deal on a brass bridge/tailpiece; what's on there now is cast something-or-other and has no mass. If I still had access to a machine shop, I'd just make my own. Same with the nut, I've made them from brass and had good results. If I can find the right scrap of bone, I'll try that. I hate to buy stuff I can make.
 
I've always been limited by budget to "wannabe" guitars that are "okay", but not great. My current electric is a Jay Turser Les Paul knockoff. Beautiful guitar, but I knew the sound wasn't quite there.

Last night I finally got to play an honest-to-goodness Les Paul (Studio model) and WOW- it was like finally having the right tool for the job! I was playing it through a Bad Monkey overdrive into a Peavey MACE amp, which has six 6L6s in it. The whole setup belongs to the son of my Sunday night music partner.

So now I'm jonesing to replace the guts in my guitar. That sound was just fantastic.
for $130 maybe total, you can change the pickup to Duncan jb, or a Dimarzio super distortion and always have one, then if you upgrade the guitar later, switch the stock one back in, and keep the good one, then you can always keep and switch a good pickup in your rig, ive had many $200-$300 guitars in 30 years, with a $80 pickup installed that would rip , you realize $5 goes into the stock pickups on a $200 guitar to keep the price down. Buy 1 good bridge pickup no matter what you end up doing. So that's $70 -$80 spent, now the bad monkey are used for $30 and I think $50 new. That is also something you can enjoy on any rig at anytime in your life, and they sound fantastic with more control than a ts9, for 1/2 the price. also on the bad monkey there is a mixer di out with speaker compensation, that feature alone has saved me a few times, 1 simple foot pedal into mains and monitors, .the monkey alone wont get you into distortion, but it gets you through, and really pushes the front of a dirty amp into a nice overdrive..
 
I tell you what, I have a few unused NOS Dimarzio humbucker's if you need one. I have a Air Norton which is a KILLER pup that I would sell and a PAF Pro which I am thinking of keeping for my Explorer. Right now I have a 496R/500T combo in but I think the PAF Pro would sound just a little better then the 500T
 
I was looking at a replacement Seymour Duncan/Switchcraft/Orange Drop kit, but I don't know if I need the pickups. Nicer pots, switch and wiring, for sure.
I got to play out with this amp and, with the amp mic'd through a PA, I was just loving what I heard. It was just slightly louder than I could keep under control. I felt like one of those Lamborghini drivers who wipes out during a burnout.

Don't buy any caps...Gibson pots are not junk. CTS better? Maybe, maybe not. Who do you think makes Gibson's pots?

I have about every orange drop you could want, Mallory, Vitamin Q, etc. etc.

If you PM me your address I would be glad to send you some caps. I'll never use all these...I'm closer to the end of my journey than the beginning.;)

I've sold most of my spare pickups, but I have at least two sets, and maybe a single. What kind of tone are you going for? Everything I have is not far from PAF style. 7k-8k-9k ohm humbuckers.

What do you like to play? Metal? Classic Blues-Based Rock? Country? All over the board?

My recommendation is a good PAF style, maybe a little hotter, and if you need more drive use a good pedal to hit the amp harder. Something like a Fulltone OCD can't be beat if you only want one pedal.

I only use OD and reverb. I've tried delay, chorus, etc., but just doesn't fit my style.

I forgot what amp you settled on.

This tone-quest is way worse than finding good audio. You are trying to find "your sound".
 
I'm a classic-rock sort of guy, overall. I go back and forth between clean and not-too-crazy overdrive; think Dickey Betts, that's the kind of sound I'm into these days. Classic, sweet PAF tones.
I avoid pedals as much as possible, with occasional forays into delay pedal psychedelia. But I will find a decent overdrive just to get that sound without having to adjust the amp. Speaking of which, my other thread, "Thinking about a new amp", chronicles the quest that led me to my new amp- a Bugera V5. The short version is that I replaced its speaker and tubes with parts from a 1959 Curtis-Mathes console and I'm really, really happy with it. I would have sent it back otherwise.
I keep thinking I should post an audio clip so you all can hear it.
 
The Bugera V5 was an excellent choice.

Dickey Betts is one of my faves, along with Billy Gibbons (especially the first 5 ZZ Top albums). Duane Allman, SRV (I know, a Strat, but that's OK...), Clapton, the three "Kings", so many, many, more.

In any case, we enjoy and play the same type of music. If you're not stuck on a big "name", I have a set of pickups wound by a guy in Columbus, Ohio that you may really enjoy. No covers and wound on clear bobbins, so you can see the wire coil.

Also, read about setting pickup height and balancing the tone/volume by adjusting the pole pieces. There's a bit to it and it can change the tone and sustain. Strings can also have a small impact. FWIW I use nickel strings, brand doesn't matter much. 10's on LPs and 9's on Fenders. Just my 2 cents.

I got your address. Let me know about the pickups.
 
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