A Tale of Two TTs - ELAC Advice Wanted

For the benefit of posterity here is an addition to the photos in the above linked thread, clarifying the location of the third standoff nut ;)

32710234944_14538e98c9_b.jpg
 
For the benefit of posterity here is an addition to the photos in the above linked thread, clarifying the location of the third standoff nut ;)

32710234944_14538e98c9_b.jpg

Thank you. I have an Elac 10h will the same components. On my unit, the nut identified as "this one" in your photo appears to be 9mm. However, I was not able to reach it due to the cramped area to unfasten it. How did you unfasten it? What tool did you use and what angle did you come in to achieve this?
 
Here's a view of my Miracord 10H manufactured in 1963. I'm able to slide the piece on top a little to provide some clearance, but I can't get enough free access to the third nut in order to complete my disassembly to service the bearing.

Please advise the:
  • Wrench size
  • Brand of wrench and type (closed, open, or offset etc)
  • From which angle direction you were able to gain access to the note.

IMG_3714.jpg


IMG_3713.jpg
 
Enjoying the thread so far and rooting for the OP and any others who are digging in to get their tables back up to snuff!

BTW, this is a Papst :

IMG_0214.jpg

and this is a Pabst:

pabst_beer.03.jpg

:D


PS: Monk, try making a "slimline" wrench out of your open end by using a bench grinder. Also you can use a torch to heat it up and get the angle you need. Obviously, don't hack up your good snap-ons but dont be afraid of ruining a cheapy. Good luck, Mike
 
Last edited:
Well, I can say it's much easier to access once you break the other one off ;)

I had the same problem with the second unit. I ended up getting it with a pair of needle nose pliers, but not a great solution. Something like these might work if they are not too tall:
http://m.harborfreight.com/8-piece-metric-offset-box-wrench-set-32042.html?utm_referrer=direct/not provided

That large nut that broke off. Is that one not designed to be removed? when I turn it, the nut turns but doesn't move up or down the thread. If that could be unscrewed it would allow access to the small nut. Why did it break when you attempted to remove it? How is it affixed?

Also, when you serviced the bearings, how gummed up were they? Did you hear any discernible difference in reduction of rumble with the serviced bearings vs before?

elac10hlarge.jpg
 
Monk, I don't know what to tell you. You just have to get the wrench on the nut from whatever angle works. Sometimes the jaws of the wrench aren't fully engaged on the nut but they are enough to loosen the nut without stripping it. This was the case with my table, the nut wasn't torqued a whole lot thankfully. You shouldn't have to fiddle with those other nuts, the wrench you showed should work if it's the right size. You made it all this way, don't let one nut stop you.
 
I'm not sure why it broke off. Both the large and small nuts on the same threaded rod were adjusted all the way up on mine and when I tried to turn the small nut it twisted the rod off.

I agree it's a real pain to get in there. The rolled up edge on the arm below reall restricts the angles you can approach from. I think mshepard might have it, making the wrench slimmer would be equivalent to making the access angles more open. The bulky head on my wrench was what kept me from getting it in there. Finding (or making) one with the thinnest head you can just might give you the flexibility to work it in there.

Another type I've seen is a closed end wrench where the head is actually bent 90 degrees. That also might get in there. Doesn't give you a lot of torque, but you shouldn't need much.
 
You need wrenches like these.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...ontent=45779&gclid=CISclvev6dICFYlrfgodDWQIqg
This is just the first example I found by doing a google search for stamped open end wrenches. I'm sure you can find cheaper ones but this gives you the idea. I have a cheap set of stamped ignition wrenches which I found for very cheap at the swap meet. They are cruddy tools and I don't use them very often but sometimes nothing else will fit.
Rick
 
You need wrenches like these.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200637939_200637939?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Hand Tools > Wrenches > Combination Wrenches&utm_campaign=Grip&utm_content=45779&gclid=CISclvev6dICFYlrfgodDWQIqg
This is just the first example I found by doing a google search for stamped open end wrenches. I'm sure you can find cheaper ones but this gives you the idea. I have a cheap set of stamped ignition wrenches which I found for very cheap at the swap meet. They are cruddy tools and I don't use them very often but sometimes nothing else will fit.
Rick

It seems like the width of the wrench head -- not the thickness -- is the obstacle. The 10H has two impediments surrounding the nut.
 
For reference, here are close ups of the 10H which show the impediments on either side of the nut. Do these same impediments exist on the Miracord 40 and 50 models?

10h3rdnut.jpg


10h3rdnutb.jpg
 
I think its the same. I wish I had a better answer for you. It's down to finding a wrench that happens to have the right angles to work it in there. A thin wrench might provide you more access angles increasing the chance of success. An offset wrench whose handle and head are in different planes should work if you happen to find one with the right combination of head thickness that will clear the two posts and inner lip, and offset angle that gets up over the lip. There are also offset socks wrenches that have a fixed bent handle on a socket that might work again if the wall thickness and handle angle happen to clear. If you have a local tool store with a good variety that will allow returns you might just have to try a bunch of stuff and return whatever doesn't fit.

As I mentioned I happened to have a pair of needle nose pliers that allowed me to get in at a fairly steep angle but still get enough leverage to break it free. It's really just that first slight turn that I needed. As soon as it broke free I could spin it off by hand no problem.

Good luck!
 
Just a brief update, I did have a look at the cartridge from the 50H, an ADC, and it was indeed miswired. I was able to correct that and tried it on the 750 and its working much better. It still has a bit of hum, but I haven't cleaned the contacts on it yet.

I'm also starting to think that my stylus is damaged on the Stanton cartridge. That would be sad as I think its an original stylus, which I gather are getting quite rare. I was already a bit suspicious as it seemed to be "riding low", with the body of the stylus holder just barely off the record. Looking at it, the cantilever also looks a bit crooked to me. I also have a fair amount of "woosh" noise that I though was still a motor or idler or bearing issue, but that went away with the ADC cartridge. I also felt like I was having to crank the volume up pretty high with Stanton, which seemed better with the ADC. I tried taking some photos of the tip with my phone, but they are pretty bad ;). The stanton tip does look a little wonky to me though. I should be able to get a better look in the next week when we start getting our new lab at work set up and the microscopes come out of storage.

Here's the Stanton:
32787241183_9c3e2fe2ec_b.jpg

33444529122_030e29ce55_b.jpg


And here's the ADC:
32787241173_fbca79bda0_b.jpg

33560656036_43c41a4177_b.jpg


With both cartridges still have some tracking/skipping problems, particularly near the beginning of records, so still have some work to do. I picked up a few clean records from a local store and the behavior is still the same, so I don't think that's it. I also ordered a couple brand new, but didn't want to play them until I'm sure my tips are ok.

Overall though I'm encouraged by how its sounding now with the ADC cartridge, which makes me think I'm getting close!

I did find a listing for the L piece that holds the spindle from a 10H, can anyone verify if they are the same? Maybe monk you can see if yours looks like the pictures of the 50H/750 ones above? The only thing that looks off is the brass piece sticking out at the far end from the spindle. Though I didn't disassemble mine that far, I'm not sure that but is the same. It seems like it would be much simpler to to just replace the whole part if I can find one than trying to repair the one that broke...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/332138477819?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 
Couldn' t imagine that getting this nut off is so difficult so I pulled an old 10 out of the basement and had at it. Larry Derouin has a tutorial from 2009 that is excellent and a must read before tackling these steps.

IMG_5034.JPG

First I removed the control panel slide arm and then used used a small crescent wrench.

IMG_5035.JPG

Easy

IMG_5036.JPG

Also Larry said in his recommended reading post that mechanicals of the 50 and the 10 were identical in this assembly.

Monk, read Larry's tutorial (again?) . I think you should remove the control panel (push buttons) slide arm. That should help. Get a small wrench and take that baby apart !
 
00,

Both of your styli look suspect to me, not that I am an expert or that those pics are real clear either. I have a Stanton 681 EE that I have gotten some good aftermarket styli for from Gary at Voice of Music. Needlestein has posted some really great info on these, he definitely knows his stuff. Reading through the threads can make your head hurt though - it can be confusing. I also have a coupla ADC XLM mk2 cartridges. I use these but prefer the Stanton. My everyday 50h has a Shure M35x that I like very much. You can get these new and while the price has gone up recently they are still not much money.

Put a new nail on that thing and enjoy ! :thumbsup:

Mike
 
Thanks for the recommendation on the M35x. Just ordered one after reading up a bit, plus a protractor and balance. I want to reduce variables until I know I've got this thing working like it should, then I can always experiment with optimizing sound from there :) I'm sure I'll eventually want to get a new stylus for the Stanton, but it seems like the M35 is a good way to go for now until its tracking like a champ. In the mean time I can always use the 78 stylus on the Stanton, so it won't be totally wasted.
 
The Miracord 50h has a post with a pointed top right below where the stylus point should be located when the tonearm is at rest in the holder. Wish I had the skills that you and Monk have with PDF or Paint or whatever you use, but you can see it in this photo:

elac_miracord_50h_record_changer.jpg

This means that you don't need a protractor to set the overhang. Just use the adjustment screw on the headshell to position the stylus above the pointed post. I dont know about the 7xx series changers.

By balance, I assume that you mean a digital scale. These are very useful to set the VTF. I use one to check the actual force value that I set with the adjuster on the table. It is usually close.

Let us know how it sounds with the new cartridge !
 
Will do! The 750 has the same alignment pin, and I have the user manual for it. Probably should have read more before getting carried away with the Amazon "you might also like" items ;)

Just picked up a pair of JBL 4411s for the upstairs system, so now I really need to get one of these working ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom