A Thank You Note to Bose Bashers

[spicer]

I sure would have loved to hear that demo, was it one pair of monitor IIs or multiples to reproduce the sound of a drummer in the same room? I ask, because no matter how good speakers I've heard, I"ve NEVER once been fooled into thinking I was listening to live music, there's just something (I have no word for it) that the actual sound of drums being pounded, (for example) that can't be reproduced through speakers.

man, I wish I could hear that demo.

one small part of what's his butt, (runs stereophile, used to be part of TAS, and various other excellent audio magazines) was talking with Paul Mcgowan, they both agreed that even through a window, it was always obvious what was actual instruments being played vs a recording.

It's been so long ago that I honestly don't remember the details well enough to be sure, don't want to misrepresent the experience with absolutes... but I believe it was Monitor IIs and definitely four of them, might have been six.. and I believe the amps were multiple Phase Linear, big meters, but the speakers were the focus seeing as how it was an Infinity show, the source was definitely digital using a modified Beta Max feeding decoders, what we now call a DAC... they had most of their product there to audition. They also had a piano for the same demo comparison which I did not hear. As for the realism of recorded to live... the only other time I've heard something comparable was with multiple high mounted Altec reproducers in a high end professional studio with the exception, besides the source being high speed tape... is the exception, and this is a big exception.... the audio, drum piece, wasn't selected for a demo and contained other instruments. This was Infinity and they had engineers set up and run the show, not just sales reps... so I am sure the drum piece was selected to best show off the speakers and the environment was 'tuned' as the situation allowed for the demo. I hear you about that something that can't be reproduced but in this situation... tailored as it might be.... it wasn't easy... something about being asked too, like being put on the spot... but the demo was convincing. The more I think about it the more I think it was six speakers... and besides the responsive bass necessary for the kick drum it was the cymbals too... they were highly touting the virtues of the Walsh tweeter which was rather innovative and pleasantly smooth and open sounding... and somewhat fragile.

 

[Alobar]

Better sound through marketing certainly out there name near the high end as far as the general population is concerned. Most audiophiles hate them , tho some of there speakers were decent like the towers that they no longer make.

I think of it. The same way they display 4K TVs with content of a bitrate so high you can’t get it anywhere, nearly 8k . Same thing as Bose displays there systems with music and eqs made to make there unit look amazing , sitting beside poorly set up speakers . Often Bose sits by itself now days to avoid comparisons to other brands.

Most people don’t do there research and buy whatever marketers want to sell them for the highest prices !!! How else do beats become the top selling headphones? When Akg are better by far.

It is kind of an interesting phenomena how certain brands seem to just rise above the rest and simply become (with their followers/customers) unquestionably the best that there is, particularly with the GP. I am going to stick my neck out and mention a few more non-audio brands that I notice this in, more in the people that own them than anything else.

Toyota. Almost everyone I know who owns one (often several) are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are the best and in most cases well worth the premium. Even the ones I have known who have had Toyota problems that weren't in my opinion handled very well still adores the name. To me I see all cars like I do people, Good and bad models from every brand name.

Apple. I married into this huge Apple family (I think they all own Toyota's too come to think about it) that are connected (face time) like a flow chart radiating out from my sister in law who was a brilliant career school teacher. All of them, without a doubt are quite certain my wife's and my PC's and Android's are hopelessly archaic and are often quietly surprised when they see me doing something with some app that they haven't known about.

Nothing against Apple, or any other what I consider cult status mfg's. I think they all make good (and bad) products. Even Bose isn't a bad speaker with with certain exceptions. What I don't understand (and am fascinated with) is the following that some brands just seem to capture. Like favorite football teams, they are the greatest and no one can tell them otherwise.

 

[ultumax]

It is kind of an interesting phenomena how certain brands seem to just rise above the rest and simply become (with their followers/customers) unquestionably the best that there is, particularly with the GP. I am going to stick my neck out and mention a few more non-audio brands that I notice this in, more in the people that own them than anything else.

Toyota. Almost everyone I know who owns one (often several) are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are the best and in most cases well worth the premium. Even the ones I have known who have had Toyota problems that weren't in my opinion handled very well still adores the name. To me I see all cars like I do people, Good and bad models from every brand name.

Apple. I married into this huge Apple family (I think they all own Toyota's too come to think about it) that are connected (face time) like a flow chart radiating out from my sister in law who was a brilliant career school teacher. All of them, without a doubt are quite certain my wife's and my PC's and Android's are hopelessly archaic and are often quietly surprised when they see me doing something with some app that they haven't known about.

Nothing against Apple, or any other what I consider cult status mfg's. I think they all make good (and bad) products. Even Bose isn't a bad speaker with with certain exceptions. What I don't understand (and am fascinated with) is the following that some brands just seem to capture. Like favorite football teams, they are the greatest and no one can tell them otherwise.

Ahh I was sold a dud used Toyota engine lights always been on and head gasket Is broken, repair cost is more then the corolla is worth.
They have become bigger then any of the big 3 brand but man this corolla sucks makes me never want a Toyota again. Unless it’s something with a more durable engine like a suv or a truck . I was also charged higher price for a car that was trash air didn’t work etc .
O well just got conned it happens buying used cars my dad trusts that dealership but it’s way worse then my civic was.

Sonos Is another phenomenon that came out of no were .
Apple is a nice brand but the phone battery Is trash mine is bad, iPhone lives on the charger.

Certainly I’m not a fan of the soundbars who parade as a 3.1 ch system or a 5.1 ch with a single speaker & a baby subwoofer.
Sony has a 1.5k soundbar!!!! $1500.
New audio trends are killing home audio sadly.
Jbl is still a top brand, and a few other iconic brands.
Bluetooth speakers while convenient are killing audio in its tracks , mini hi fi systems Are dead and they were superior in every way. I always wanted Jvc giga tube , or sharp mini system with side firing woofers.
But I gotta. Full sized klipsch low end system , deception in the styling . Still impressive sounding tho for budget klipsch.
Klipsch seems to have survived the wave of new brands but cannot sell as many speakers as Bose. Bose , has many acronyms I read in bose bashing articles too.

I wish bose would use higher quality drivers but they charge a huge price for low end woofers, tweeters.

 

[Alobar]

I can't argue with their success, it's evident in their continued profitability.

I do think that Bose does a good job in situations where the standard solutions just don't work. Their bluetooth speakers, soundbars, etc rank at the top of the heap, though you do pay a premium for them. I remember being quite impressed with one of their iPod docks about 10-15 years ago. In situations where the design is fundamentally compromised by physics, Bose is good at working around those constraints to create something listenable. But even if you put out the world's best all-in-one speaker that fits in a backpack, you're leaving a huge amount of performance on the table in absolute terms. Even their surround sound systems might be impressive if your only other point of reference is the other brand of HTIB with equivalent design constraints. But lift those constraints and there's a whole realm of performance that one could only dream of achieving within them.

Bose uses engineering and research to minimize the faults of inherently compromised design efforts. They're probably the best in the world at that task when it comes to audio. But for those of use who are willing to live with lifestyle/living space compromises instead of design compromises they just aren't competitive.

Yeah, I also think Bose played no small part in the trend of reduction in physical size of the modern speaker from the 90's on. With the Bose name, it became okay to have a sound system that didn't dominate a room.. Bose led, and other speaker mfg's followed with much improved small speaker performance. Bose knows that performance level that isn't where their bread gets buttered however. They set the trend, sell a ton of speakers to the masses, and let other mfg's make the concept sound good for the 10% who care about that sort of thing.

 

[Alobar]

iPhone lives on the charger.

Yeah! I notice that at airports especially...

 

[ultumax]

Yeah, I also think Bose played no small part in the trend of reduction in physical size of the modern speaker from the 90's on. With the Bose name, it became okay to have a sound system that didn't dominate a room.. Bose led, and other speaker mfg's followed with much improved small speaker performance. Bose knows that performance level that isn't where their bread gets buttered however. They set the trend, sell a ton of speakers to the masses, and let other mfg's make the concept sound good for the 10% who care about that sort of thing.

Smaller speakers was a good idea but , even in my bedroom system I use a full sized budget klipsch & 1 pair of pioneer floor standing as surrounds .
It was possible to buy bookshelves and get the same sound quality or satellites but I’d have to pay more !!!! Then I did for my system.

Small speakers trying to defy physics always ends up with a compromise in bass , and more localized hearing of the booming subwoofer.
For a high end bookshelves you pay higher price then mid range floorstanders.
Some people hate big box speakers or slim speakers and only want baby sized ones.

Most people only want good looking speakers , hence the good style on outside despite low sound quality.

Budget brands also take off like vizeo.

 

[Hawkeye83]

My Uncle introduced me to the "Bose is best" mentality when I was around 16. He upgraded his Bose Wave Radio to a Bose Acoustic Wave (or something like it...but I think that was the one...basically a bigger Wave Radio) and I inherited the Wave Radio. It served me well in college, but I always thought my $75 Altec computer speakers sounded better! But I kept the Bose, for the "name." I kept it for 13 years, actually! Eventually I traded it in towards some KEF 103.2 speakers at a pawn shop...wow, what a difference "proper" speakers make! I wouldn't mind having the Wave Radio around yet as a clock radio by my bedside...but even then, I think my $90 Sony sounds better!

Another uncle of mine gave me crap for bringing home some White Van speakers. He was like "look, see what direction things are going? Smaller! Look at these Bose speakers...smaller!" So he had me convinced big stereo speakers were "no good" for a year or so there. Until I heard some! Even "Best Buy Klipsch" blew away those little Bose cubes he had. So I had the Best Buy Klipsch from around 20 years old until around 31 years old, when I really started getting into this "stereo" thing.

So that's my experience with Bose. A Wave Radio (owned) and one of those little "Lifestyle" systems (heard). They work, but they don't sound great.

Never heard any real Bose speakers (901 etc).

 

[crazy-in-az]

I've owned the smaller Wave Radio and some 901 series III. Here's what I think...

Bose is good at marketing the idea that you can and should replace all of your stereo components with a small, unassuming radio. I know that most people can't be bothered with trying out a dozen speaker and amp combinations, so this neat little all-in-one is a convenient solution. Just like how ear buds are more convenient than headphones, mp3's are more convenient than CD's and records, etc.

I sold the radio shortly after getting serious about hi-fi, and my 901's are sitting in my closet waiting for a refoam. They were good before the foam rotted, but I have several speakers that beat them when it comes to bass and treble extension, imaging and soundstage.

I don't think they're bad per se, they're just not for me. I believe their products are overpriced, but apparently a large market segment thinks otherwise.

 

[Audiofreak71]

It is kind of an interesting phenomena how certain brands seem to just rise above the rest and simply become (with their followers/customers) unquestionably the best that there is, particularly with the GP. I am going to stick my neck out and mention a few more non-audio brands that I notice this in, more in the people that own them than anything else.

Toyota. Almost everyone I know who owns one (often several) are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are the best and in most cases well worth the premium. Even the ones I have known who have had Toyota problems that weren't in my opinion handled very well still adores the name. To me I see all cars like I do people, Good and bad models from every brand name.

Apple. I married into this huge Apple family (I think they all own Toyota's too come to think about it) that are connected (face time) like a flow chart radiating out from my sister in law who was a brilliant career school teacher. All of them, without a doubt are quite certain my wife's and my PC's and Android's are hopelessly archaic and are often quietly surprised when they see me doing something with some app that they haven't known about.

Nothing against Apple, or any other what I consider cult status mfg's. I think they all make good (and bad) products. Even Bose isn't a bad speaker with with certain exceptions. What I don't understand (and am fascinated with) is the following that some brands just seem to capture. Like favorite football teams, they are the greatest and no one can tell them otherwise.

Subliminal messages in there advertising?

Audiofreak71

 

[Alobar]

Subliminal messages in there advertising?

Audiofreak71

It's more than just that I think.. Perhaps luck, coupled with a few engineering parlor tricks maybe as well as brilliant innuendo in advertising questioning the wisdom of buying lesser brands, remaining above the fray, often steering clear of honest comparison on the sales floor. This is a very envious position for any mfg to have, but it doesn't get created easily..

 

[Audiofreak71]

It's more than just that I think.. Perhaps luck, coupled with a few engineering parlor tricks maybe as well as brilliant innuendo in advertising questioning the wisdom of buying lesser brands, remaining above the fray, often steering clear of honest comparison on the sales floor. This is a very envious position for any mfg to have, but it doesn't get created easily..

Also to add , Apple as an example using a keep it simple and clean with there advertising and with all manufacturers everyone is happy and it’s easy to use there products. Sucks people in and they believe it will be easy just like in the advertising.

Audiofreak71

 

[rudedogg]

When I began my audio re-discovery, maybe 7 years ago, I got a Dual idler turntable, some model vintage Pioneer SS integrated, and Bose 301 series 3 or 4 if I recall correctly. I have to say those 301s sounded pretty damn good if kept say 3 feet up and 8ft apart in my dining room...

 

[62vauxhall]

I saw this I couple of years ago. probably linked here on AK. It's "cute". This Bose discussion reminded of it.

 

[E-Stat]

Apple as an example using a keep it simple and clean with there(sic) advertising and with all manufacturers everyone is happy and it’s easy to use there(sic) products. Sucks people in and they believe it will be easy just like in the advertising.

I use my Apple products: watch - phone - pad as remotes to the music systems.

 

[Audiofreak71]

I use my Apple products: watch - phone - pad as remotes to the music systems.

Yep same here I actually really appreciate the Apple ecosystem, works for me .

Audiofreak71

 

[Alobar]

Yeah, that is amazing! You can actually use a phone and watch to control music.. Wonder when Android will ever catch up with that.

 

[Audiofreak71]

I’ve come to the conclusion that there all the same Apple Android etc , but what really matters is A. Reliability of the phone/ computer and software updates, the latter is where Apple is on top therefore allowing people to have much older phones (5yrs old) that are still relevant today . I used to be fascinated by all the features only to realize I don’t use 98% of them therefore all I cared about is if the phone worked and was reliable.

Audiofreak71

 

[Alobar]

My phone is reliable too. Hasn't caught fire in more than a month!

 

[Audiofreak71]

Lol , I had the Galaxy Note 7 , loved that phone had no problems with it until they started to purposely brick all of them to force people to turn them in , that and the way out of date software updates and I was done . Crossed back over to the iPhone and it’s been consistent and works for me .

Audiofreak71

 

[Alobar]

Lol , I had the Galaxy Note 7 , loved that phone had no problems with it until they started to purposely brick all of them to force people to turn them in , that and the way out of date software updates and I was done . Crossed back over to the iPhone and it’s been consistent and works for me .

Audiofreak71

My Note 8 has been going reliably for about 9 months now with regular updates. One of the things I like about it is the added storage I have for it. 200GB microSD card + 60 GB internal and a FiiO Q1 DAC and I can bypass the internal DAC and listen to loads of CD quality Flac and hi rez files on my headphones when traveling. The sound of that Q1 and the Sennheiser 579HD, and I can actually enjoy music with cans. The note function is nice, but I don't use it like I thought I would. Unless this phone takes a dump I don;t see changing i anytime soont, especially for lack of storage.