ADS L300e - Sound muddy

ZeroG

Super Member
Just picked up a pair of ADS L300e off of CL. Seller was quite the audiophile with some very expensive gear. Got them home, hooked them up to a Yamaha M-65, and they sound quite muddy. The tweeters are working. The crossover has two coils, a film cap (prob for the tweeter), 3 resistors (lifted legs; checked OK) and two NP caps, 33 and 25uF . Replaced the 33 uF and the 25 with other NPE (not much cab space for the size of film caps. Still sound muddy. Cardboard tubed the tweeter, it seems to be working OK. There is also a small disc cap that should be OK.

Anyone have an idea why these sound so flat? Sounds like there's a blanket over them.
 
If they're just hooked to the M 65, no wonder:D - just teasing!

What are the other components? What did you have before? LP or CD? Inquiring minds want to know! Preston
 
"There is also a small disc cap that should be OK."

ADS started using "polyswitch" tweeter protectors in some models around the time of the L300E. Could that disc be one of those? If so, try bypassing/replacing it.
 
That might be it - does this look like what you were referring to? I do think something is wrong, as all my other ADS speakers are pretty bright, even the one pair that's from an in-wall unit.

Would it be safe to bypass that cap? Don't want to blow a tweeter.
 

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Get rid of that poly switch or swap it out for a new one. Once they've been "tripped" a few times, they get weaker and weaker and the resistance between the little plates doesn't allow for as much current to go through. I'd personally do away with the poly switches altogether.

Or, you can put a little jumper wire across it to test it first which basically bypasses it.
 
That might be it - does this look like what you were referring to? I do think something is wrong, as all my other ADS speakers are pretty bright, even the one pair that's from an in-wall unit.

Would it be safe to bypass that cap? Don't want to blow a tweeter.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's a polyswitch in series with the tweeter. Bypass it as a test. Leaving the tweeter unprotected is something you'll have to do at your own risk. FWIW, L300 had no tweeter fuse but 300i did. Consider replacing it with a fast-blow fuse ~1.5A.

I've read that polyswitches normally add about 0.5 ohms. The tweeter might be too bright unless you put a resistor in place of the polyswitch.
 
OK, thanks for the suggestion! Bypassed the polyswitches in both crossovers by adding a bit of wire across them. Did not recap the other speaker yet (didn't think it needed it), and the tweeter has a film cap (blue rectangular box in the pic), so no need to change that out.

The results were more subtle than I had hoped. But I think there is a slight difference, and the tweeter output on both may be more even than it was before, but I still think it may be lacking in tweeter output. I have never heard these before, so my expectations may be influenced by my other ADS speakers. They do sound more balanced the more I listen to them, though, and it's typical of ADS products to require some ear adjustment before they get their claws into you.

Still not as overjoyed with these as I thought I would be. Not as tight as I expected. Woofer seems more like a mid (ok for their size I'm not expecting a lotta bass), but not as crisp as I think it should be. Perhaps there's a metal cabinet ring, maybe the cabinet could use some damping, like a mortite coating on a couple of walls? Overall not a bad speaker. I had intended them to go into my bedroom as back speakers to my front L710s.

Also, FWIW, besides the Yamaha M-65 (completely recapped), these speakers are being fed by a Lexicon DC-1 and a Luxman D113d CD player. So the issue is probably not upstream.
 
They do sound more balanced the more I listen to them, though, and it's typical of ADS products to require some ear adjustment before they get their claws into you.
That does not sound like a very glowing endorsement. My opinion is if your speakers don't make you smile the second you turn them on then they are not the correct speakers for you. You should not require any "ear adjustment".
 
I don't know if this particular tweeter has ferrofluid in it. If so, it might be dried up. Curiosity would compel me to disassemble one and look. At the same time I'd get the opportunity to realign the VC.
 
There's something going on...I have mine with some 810's and they make me smile. Good luck on finding a solution.
 
Looks like that has the later poly film tweeter in it, not the earlier fabric dome type. They tend to be a little more laid back in my experience. I don't know the answer on the ferrofluid question either, should as I have a house full of a/d/s/ speakers with the poly film tweeters but I've never had one apart. Richard So will know though, can reach him at ads_speakers@yahoo.com.

John
 
Looks like that has the later poly film tweeter in it, not the earlier fabric dome type. They tend to be a little more laid back in my experience. I don't know the answer on the ferrofluid question either, should as I have a house full of a/d/s/ speakers with the poly film tweeters but I've never had one apart. Richard So will know though, can reach him at ads_speakers@yahoo.com.

John

Thanks John,

I've just written to Richard So. I'll post his answer when it arrives.
 
That does not sound like a very glowing endorsement. My opinion is if your speakers don't make you smile the second you turn them on then they are not the correct speakers for you. You should not require any "ear adjustment".

It really isn't a glowing endorsement at all. If I brought home a pair of speakers that sounded this dull I would immediately suspect the caps in the XO. I wonder if the poly caps (not the switches) have gone bad somehow. It seems odd that both speakers are affected, so I would suspect a blown cap. But I thought the poly caps never went bad, period. Maybe a bad batch, somehow?
 
Richard So's Reply

Now that's fast service! Richard So replied that that ferro-fluid does dry out. He can rebuild them and upgrade them to the better tweeter for$90/pair.

Since these only cost me $50 to begin with, I think I will order ferro-fluid from Parts Express and try to refresh the ferro fluid myself. If that doesn't work, then I would consider parting with the speakers. I wouldn't have invested $140 to buy them to begin with.

http://www.parts-express.com/wizard...WebPage_ID=3&searchFilter=ferro+fluid&x=0&y=0
 
FF Experiment

Interesting how you can talk to several people and yet get way different stories with plenty of back-up for each story.

In seeking ferro-fluid from a local source (which I didn't find), I spoke with one tech who told me he's never ever seen FF dry out in 14 years on the job, but he has dealt with film caps in the XO that were blown.

Decided to experiment...changed out the film cap....no diff. Then took the tweeter apart, and the FF did seem sludgy. Using a piece of plastic VC shim stock, I wiped out the groove in the motor assembly. Then using a q-tip very slightly moistened with a little WD-40 (to keep the q-tip fibers intact and to prevent the need for excess pressure) I gently wiped just some of the excess sludge from both sides of the VC (didn't clean it off completely), then reassembled.

Presto! Much more tweeter output than before. By comparison with the untouched speaker, this sounded quite a bit clearer. Now, of course I didn't turn it up very much and I also won't play them until I get replacement FF, but it did prove that it's the dry FF that's restricting the VC travel. (Validated Richard So's diagnosis).

Pics to be posted when I get replacement FF to complete the job.

Now - the question is...what to clean the old FF off with, how much of it to clean off and reapply, and are there different types of FF?

Anyone? Soundmotor? Gordon?
 
It really isn't a glowing endorsement at all. If I brought home a pair of speakers that sounded this dull I would immediately suspect the caps in the XO. I wonder if the poly caps (not the switches) have gone bad somehow. It seems odd that both speakers are affected, so I would suspect a blown cap. But I thought the poly caps never went bad, period. Maybe a bad batch, somehow?
I would guess that to be remote at best. My opinion and you may not like this, cut your losses and move on. You may throw a bunch of money at these and never be satisfied.
 
Good progress... and you definitely want to be very careful about applying power w/o the FF in place. Even when it's new, these polymer dome tweeters will work fine up to the point the coil temp crosses a threshold, then the dome begins to melt and the coil will offcenter. Go much higher than that and they will burn the coil completely. The Kodak polymer material had nice acoustic properties but it sure didn't have much thermal top end.

John


P.S. Haven't seen Soundmotor around AK for awhile now. I think he's busy with a new gig & not spending as much time on the audio stuff. Been a couple of years since his last post.

Interesting how you can talk to several people and yet get way different stories with plenty of back-up for each story.

In seeking ferro-fluid from a local source (which I didn't find), I spoke with one tech who told me he's never ever seen FF dry out in 14 years on the job, but he has dealt with film caps in the XO that were blown.

Decided to experiment...changed out the film cap....no diff. Then took the tweeter apart, and the FF did seem sludgy. Using a piece of plastic VC shim stock, I wiped out the groove in the motor assembly. Then using a q-tip very slightly moistened with a little WD-40 (to keep the q-tip fibers intact and to prevent the need for excess pressure) I gently wiped just some of the excess sludge from both sides of the VC (didn't clean it off completely), then reassembled.

Presto! Much more tweeter output than before. By comparison with the untouched speaker, this sounded quite a bit clearer. Now, of course I didn't turn it up very much and I also won't play them until I get replacement FF, but it did prove that it's the dry FF that's restricting the VC travel. (Validated Richard So's diagnosis).

Pics to be posted when I get replacement FF to complete the job.

Now - the question is...what to clean the old FF off with, how much of it to clean off and reapply, and are there different types of FF?

Anyone? Soundmotor? Gordon?
 
New Ferro Fluid

The Ferro Fluid comes premeasured per the size voice coil. After cleaning out the old crud and replacing the FF, the tweeters are outputting more and the speaker sounds more balanced, no longer muddy. Big difference.

As previously stated by JDurbin1, these tweeters are a little more laid-back than the silk domes by ADS. But the speaker balance seems to indicate that they sound like they are about right, considering that I've never heard this model ADS before.

Here are some pics. The FF is self leveling, so very easy to apply. I don't hear any buzzing from the tweeters, since I marked the magnet position previously. So far so good.
 

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I'm glad to hear it worked out.

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I guess "muddy" was an apt description.
 
First time for everything, I guess. Ferro Fluid. Who'd a thunk it? Edit: Thanks to all who mentioned it.

Left the bypasses soldered into the poly-switches. If it's a tad brighter with them bypassed, then fine. Not too worried about blowing the tweeter, as I usually listen at a moderate volume.

I've never put in-line fuses into/onto a speaker. Always thought that the more connections, the more the signal degrades. Might be a good time to consider it.
 
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