Altec Model 15 project

Hi Katalyst,

I looked at the "Optimal M15" file that you uploaded.

I'm quite sure it was corrupted ( or else the file that I uploaded was corrupted somewhere along the way ) .
- I say this because the un-filtered response was very skewed//distorted.

Anyways; here's what the raw Horn/Driver looks like ( before & ) after M15 filtering is applied ( at the noted optimal settings ) .

Altec_Model-15_HiPass_response_.png


I've uploaded the raw .frd file ( renamed as .txt file >> so just remove that additional extension before using it in XSim )

I looked at the .zma file ( enclosed within the XSim file ) and it wasn't corrupted, so I haven't attached it .

:)
 

Attachments

  • 8028g32b_0deg_.frd.txt
    16.9 KB · Views: 19
Last edited:
Did not know there was any corruption,sorry. I came across this page with files relating to 414 Altec. Post 892 on this page. I have had no luck converting these to XSim files. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/34467-flex-your-pcd-mettle/page60 The 414 would be close to the 412 I am using.

Those files in post 892 ( over at T.T. ) are .frd & .zma files ( with .txt appended to the ends just so that Zilch could upload them to that forum ).

You can't directly convert them into a .dxo ( XSim file ).

You instead open Xsim > drag a speaker icon onto the filter editor screen > right click on that speaker icon > import the .frd + .zma files of your chosing > name the speaker icon > close that window and start dragging passives into the editor window to build your sim.

I think your 412 will be closer in response to the 414Z ( apart from the impedance differences ).

The 414Z, as seen here has more of a rising mid-band response .

Here are some web captures showing these two woofers.

414z_10006504985.jpg
414-8B_10021419423.jpg



While the extremely flattering vertical scale ( seen above ) helps mask the differences, here's those very same traces ( exported + then ) opened up in REW, displayed in a higher resolution vertical scale.

Altec_414-8B_vs_414z_response_study.png


:)

PS; I'll be posting the frd's of these ( web-capture ) 414's for you to play with ( sometime this weekend ).
 
Last edited:
EarlK thank you for guiding me in this adventure. I am now running the Model 15 crossover on the 802 drivers outside the box. Bi-amp terminals installed. The PS200 crown amplifier is now running the woofers. This way I could attenuate them. I could finally here the 802s on the 32 horns. They do cross at 1700 hz as the manual says. I used the wire keepers as " Feet ". Stands will be made later.
 

Attachments

  • BiAmp Terminal.JPG
    BiAmp Terminal.JPG
    100.8 KB · Views: 46
  • Temped Controls.JPG
    Temped Controls.JPG
    98.7 KB · Views: 44
  • WireFeet.JPG
    WireFeet.JPG
    88.5 KB · Views: 47
  • PS200 Knobs set.JPG
    PS200 Knobs set.JPG
    127.8 KB · Views: 46
  • PinkNoiseBiamped.JPG
    PinkNoiseBiamped.JPG
    87.6 KB · Views: 45
The Yamaha CR600 has made the bi-amping easy. No extra jumpers needed. The receiver is powering the horn section. The ps200 the woofers. Using the speaker switch you can drop the horns out. Turn the ps200 off and horns only. This is the first time I have bi-amped. Graph attached of room response at sweet seat with actual music playing. Music selected was The Pentangle .
 

Attachments

  • biamp balanced (3).JPG
    biamp balanced (3).JPG
    119.8 KB · Views: 20
Now that the horns are audible sound has opened up. The Model 15 crossovers will be broke down for reworking. The two do not adjust the same and pots have dead spots . I will make a simple first order crossover for temporary service while the real crossover is built.
You might have come across this ( 32343 ) network in your search's .
The networks you offered would be most welcome. Do they have the woofer portion as well as the horn section? I had the speakers on milk crates as stands.Now they are lower and the 32 horns project up from what I have read. The "beaming" of the woofers is out of range now. My wife has been very understanding. Saturday afternoon spent working on the project and all smiles.
 
Last edited:
Hi,

Here's a zipped XSim file with a lots of goodies inside it .

HiPass Swapping in XSim :

I built the M15 HiPass section and added it to this file ( which started life as a 32343 network schematic ) so that a user can compare the overall differences ( if any ) between the M15 and 32343 HiPasses ( when married to the 32343 LowPass ).

I found the differences are minimal ( and don't really warrant building the 32343 HiPass if one is already in possession of the M15 HiPass ).

You can see these differences for yourself by toggling in ( or out ) either HiPass.
- Use the "Hold" function/button to compare the differences.

To effect a toggle/swap, right click on the first capacitor found in the each HP section > then choose "Tune" from the menu that appears > then in the next window, choose either "Normal" to engage the component or "Open" to remove the component ( & everything following it ) from the circuit simulation .

414 Woofer Swapping in XSim :

I've included all the file variations that I've made for 414 woofers, ( though I tend to create more when I run across some new info ).

Antways, just drag any woofer into place to see the response changes one gets from simple substitutions ( remember to use together (2) 414z woofers since they're 16 ohm woofers being subbed into a circuit meant for a single 8 ohm woofer ).

The challenge here is that these files are constructed from other peoples data > so I can't speak to any inaccuracies ( though I'm very confident in Zilch's data ) .

Good Luck!

:)
 

Attachments

  • Altec_Multiple_414s_802G+32B_modH.zip
    44.7 KB · Views: 22
Last edited:
Once again. Thank you. I will play with all the goodies you sent and come up with a plan. Good Karma to you.
 
Thanks to EarlK the path forward is set. Parts have been ordered for the crossovers. The crossovers have been stripped in preparation for renewal. All L-pads were bad. I added some height to the speakers. Legs stained and installed.Center of horn at 29 inches now. Currently using crossovers from a parts express buyout. Only the tweeter portion of the crossovers are being used. Attached is a zip file of the crossover being built.
 

Attachments

  • Altec_Multiple_414s_802G+32B_modH.zip
    44.7 KB · Views: 6
  • Stripped Crossovers (4).JPG
    Stripped Crossovers (4).JPG
    87.1 KB · Views: 73
  • LegsAdded (9).JPG
    LegsAdded (9).JPG
    95.6 KB · Views: 82
The schematic for the crossovers is attached. Not the correct symbols but understandable.
 

Attachments

  • Schematic (3).JPG
    Schematic (3).JPG
    61.3 KB · Views: 53
Crossovers built. The added board is to allow for the added woofer section. Installing later today for testing.
 

Attachments

  • BothDone (3).JPG
    BothDone (3).JPG
    133.6 KB · Views: 36
Thanks to EarlK the crossovers are done. I listened to them for about an hour. Much better now. The bi-flex has been tamed. Very balanced between the horn and woofer. Graph of the speakers taken at 3 feet . Mic centered mid point between horn and woofer. UpAndRunning (1).JPG
 

Attachments

  • BothDone (2).JPG
    BothDone (2).JPG
    123.9 KB · Views: 45
  • UpAndRunning (8).JPG
    UpAndRunning (8).JPG
    94.1 KB · Views: 38
The next step is to make these look better. The first picture is when I brought them home.I used Watco rejuvenating oil on them.Four coats and here are the results.
 

Attachments

  • DSC00002.JPG
    DSC00002.JPG
    90.3 KB · Views: 56
  • CabsOiled (9).JPG
    CabsOiled (9).JPG
    86.7 KB · Views: 58
  • CabsOiled (11).JPG
    CabsOiled (11).JPG
    94.7 KB · Views: 63
  • CabsOiled (13).JPG
    CabsOiled (13).JPG
    85.6 KB · Views: 56
Last edited:
Next step. What to do about the grills? I will not be foaming them.
 

Attachments

  • BlankPallet (10).JPG
    BlankPallet (10).JPG
    115.3 KB · Views: 34
I'd recommend making a new set out of furring strips or similarly sized wood and installing new pegs. Should be easy to build a square frame and staple speaker cloth tight around the frame with peg holes and a new peg set. (or two section frame to have the original look)
 
Thank you for the reply. The original board will be cleaned and reused. The existing hook and loop fasteners are still in good shape. I have some grill cloth to try out. This weekend hopefully.
 
You may already know this, but It appears the original had projections from the boards about 1” to which the speaker cloth is wrapped around.

So to match that would simply mean making the top and bottom frames that attach to the board and gluing/screwing or nailing together. Also I think the originals used pegs to accommodate this weight but good hook and loop should be OK (3M type ) but plain old Velcro might not take the weight.

If you’re just covering the existing board and not concerned about making it have the original look for now velcro should be just fine.
 
I had some time today to work on the grills. Scraped the leftover foam off. Painted them to prepare for the next step.
 

Attachments

  • GrillsPainted (3).JPG
    GrillsPainted (3).JPG
    91 KB · Views: 61
PS... Katalyst I see now the Model 15 had thick foam, rather than wood frame stand off's covered in speaker cloth, like Models 14/19, so a correction from post #58. Let me know if you want pics of the model 14 grill frames, although they're different, if you go that route.
 
Back
Top Bottom