An interesting article....

[Kamakiri]

Check this out, my apologies if you've seen it before...

http://db.photo.net/com/philg/materialism/stereo.html

It's long, but a very interesting and relevant read. Go to the top and click on the main article.

 

[Rob]

Tim,

I just discovered that I only read the comments, but that was an
Interesting read! The last post by Mike Thomas said something I've really noticed since I got the new horns built, just finally dialed in after fiddling for 3 weeks and have pored through my library of vinyl for those terrific sounds, and I'm having trouble. Some are breathtakingly spectacular, most arent. One 10CC album I used to think sounded great sounds flat and muffled compared to better recordings I've re-discovered. Dire Straights Love Over Gold is really well recorded on the vinyl version. Tom Petty's Refuge album, terrific, Red Rider, White Hot, nice. Van Morrison Tupelo Honey, pfft. New Riders of the Purple Sage Panama Red, is a real treat!

As far as my system, and my ears go, the best sound I get, given the best produced LP I have versus the best in CD, I say CD hands down. I just got Dave Grusin's "Migration" on CD and it is absolutely amazing.

But back to my point, to quote Mike ..."Musicality is quite elisive. Although many systems costing $30K to $100K or more are capable of producing georgeous, realistic sound when fed just the right material, as a general rule of thumb, the more refined (and therefore expensive) the system, the fewer recordings will sound good on it".

S'true.

Rob

 

[Robh3606]

An interesting read.

"when fed just the right material, as a general rule of thumb, the more refined (and therefore expensive) the system, the fewer recordings will sound good on it".

This never made any sense to me. Either you are reproducing what's there faithfully or you are not. Is the resolution of these system so much better than the multimillion dollar studio systems they were mastered on???

I am not saying all material is recorded well and I can see where a higher resolution system would make this more audible but if its a good song, its a good song.

Because they have such high resolution you can hear every flaw so you can't listen and enjoy your old favorites anymore???

You can keep the high reolution system, What's the point if thats the case????

So I guess we all need boom boxes???

I don't meen to be contrary but its such a contradiction. We all strive to improve our systems with that to look forward too as the end result??

 

[Rob]

RobH3606

It is simple when you think about the big picture. Imagine a really cheap sound system with a limited bandpass and limited dynamic range. Play a very wide dynamic range recorded Hi Fidelity source through it, and play a dynamically compressed, frequency limited source through it and they will both sound about the same. The owner of such a reproducing system will be happy with all the records he buys if he likes the tunes.

Now improve the quality of the reproduction system so that you have flat, undistorted response to 10 KHz without dynamic compression to 100 dB SPL. Play poor recordings through it and they will sound poor, play great recordings and they will sound noticeably better.

Put that system back in the original packing boxes and let the delivery guys set up the super duper system with flat response to 25 KHz and no dynamic compression to 130 dB SPL. Re-play those recordings that all sounded great on the mid quality system. Now you will probably begin to hear rather noticeable differences in the quality of those that all sounded pretty good. Some will actually sound terrible compared to the others, yet on the mid quality system they all sounded pretty good. What's going on here?

This is the effect I have witnessed myself and agreed with the other writers comment. The higher the resolution of the reproduction system, the harder it will be to find material that sounds really good on it, once you have heard one very good recording.

The point is I guess, the holy grail we seek by striving to upgrade our systems to some benchmark is the sound that we do hear in those fewer recordings that are really well produced and the tunes are happenin'. Then it is magic.

Rob

 

[Robh3606]

Hi Rob

Respectfully I don't agree about the really cheap system scenario. If it’s a good recording such as good dynamics, low noise, good bandwidth you will be able to hear it. You could certainly hear the dynamics although they may not be reproduced as they should. The poor recording would allow the system to just loaf on by. I think the better recording could actually sound worse as it would tax the system to its max.

What I mean is the change from mid-fi and up. I dislike those terms as they imply there is a price point which makes no sense to me. This whole hobby is based on personal perception and we all have different perceptions and goals for what our systems should be. If we are happy we have our grail, so to speak so I don't see where you can put a price point on it as the dollars invested can be small comparatively.

Well back to the post. We have all upgraded what have the rest of you found?? Certainly good recordings unfortunately are not as common as they should be but I have never had a good one go "bad" after an upgrade. I will certainly admit they will sound different but not "bad" or less listenable.

Well Maybe I haven't reached that plateau yet????

Rob2

 

[Kamakiri]

Perhaps I'm missing the point, but I don't think what Rob is referring to in his agreement with the article has to do with the actual source of the audio, moreover the actual amplification and speakers associated with the particular sound system. High priced cables can only bring the kind of sound quality differences that you associate your car being quieter and better performing after a trip through the car wash. It's all subjective. Rob and I have been talking for months about tube vs. SS audio, and why he believes tube is superior. I've heard the word "mellow" and "warmth" associated with tube gear a lot more than I've heard "accurate reproduction".

It wasn't until Rob started posting in here that I think I've discovered in part what my own system is lacking.....clarity. This has a lot to do with the speakers that I use I think....for the time being until I get the 15" woofers refoamed I've been using some Sansui SP-2000s built by me into cabinets. While they do sound great, I've been a bit disappointed that I'm not "blown away", and maybe this is why. Now, I'm a bass kinda guy, but I like my treble so exacting that I can bounce a quarter off the sounds that are coming forth. My Altec horns will take care of that I believe.

In association with my own experience in this arena is that I have a couple of trance/DJ mix CDs....such as Paul Oakenfold. When I listen to them in the car, they sound great, but when I listen to them on my home setup, they sound just too computerized....as if I can manually pick out the attack/decay rates for each note that comes forth. So, I have CDs that only are used in the car. Pat Metheny sounds wonderful on my home system, but certain other CDs with music that I love I can only listen to on something other than my main setup, otherwise, it's like nails on a chalkboard.

So, all in all, I can't wait until I can get my woofers refoamed and try them on SS, and then a tube amp, to see the differences for myself.

 

[Robh3606]

Hello Tim

Well I think once you get those 15' refomed and the Altecs up and running clarity will not be something you are missing. So what are those JBL'S did you ever get a model number off of them??

Regards Rob

Thanks for a nice site

 

[Kamakiri]

Turned out they weren't JBLs....they're Phillips woofers. Rob is the person I got them from (THANKS ROB! ). The JBL was my assumption, since they are Altec horns and the woofers were white. I can't think of a better looking speaker to put in the cabinets, so I'm getting these refoamed anyways.

 

[Rob]

Originally posted by Robh3606
Hi Rob



What I mean is the change from mid-fi and up. I dislike those terms as they imply there is a price point which makes no sense to me. This whole hobby is based on personal perception and we all have different perceptions and goals for what our systems should be. If we are happy we have our grail, so to speak so I don't see where you can put a price point on it as the dollars invested can be small comparatively.

Rob2

Rob 2,

I was in no way trying to imply a relationship to quality and price. There are no price points to me . I build all my own gear from scratch with the exception of sources, so price doesn't mean a thing except what I pay for material and raw loudspeaker drivers.

I totally agree with you in that if we are happy we have our grail. I am very happy after building my latest horns, I have my grail.
I am an artist however and my canvas is technology, so I still wish to paint creatively. I will build more experimental amplifiers now that I have the speakers with which to evaluate them. This is just me.

Rob

 

[Robh3606]

Hey Rob

I did not mean you personally just me ranting I build too it's great fun!! Happy you have your Grail