anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

My 3000 ME/X is still in good shape ( as far as I can tell). Did some research when I got it, and suspected it was a clone and not an original Empire cart. I am late to the game, trying to rediscover my 1970's stereo youth. I have acquired all of the original pieces I once had, except for the Empire 4000 DII. The 3000 was the closest I could find and the time ( that my wife would permit )....LOL. Still the question remains.....what to replace it with, without losing the sound quality, that I currently enjoy ? This 3000 certainly doesn't seem the quality of my, "once loved" 4000 DII... You fellows certainly seem to know your stuff......So I put it to you.....Whatta Ya Think?
 
My standard procedure is to first grab any available top stylus while they're still available, and then crouch down to pounce on the appropriate body later, a strategy that's mostly worked. So now I say grab an S915E (239-DET) for the 2000Z, then do a search for one of the Z's clone bodies. It's not a line-contact like your 4000D, but it's more capable as a stylus+body combo. Lots of Z fans in this thread, and I'm one of them.
 
One of the best of the old Empires is the 2000Z and its clones and siblings, a clone being an EXL-30 and a sibling being the 2000T. The good thing about these is that there are still original styli available at reasonable cost, The not so good thing is that the bodies, particularly for the 2000Z and its siblings, go for usually go for ridiculous money.

The best bet is to look for one of the clones in the hope that the seller is unaware of what he's selling. This is becoming harder and harder but the list of clones is long and every so often one that was previously unknown will appear. The telltale sign is a smaller hole in the front of the cartridge for the stylus' insertion tube. Only the 2000Z and its clones or siblings have the smaller hole so if you see that, that's enough to know it's the "good stuff"?

The styli are available in gold, silver, metallic blue and translucent yellow and all are listed as Pfanstiehl 239-DET though they all have their own Empire numbers.

John
 
Thanks! What would be your opinion of a suitable "modern" cartridge for vintage type turntable, that may be close to 70's retro/rock sound?
"Not to put you on the spot" But I would like your opinion. I've done some research, but honestly there is just too much out there and I would respect your opinion to help me wade through all the BS.....Thanks, Russ
 
I'm the wrong person to ask, assuming you were. Like me, all my cartridges have gray hair.

John
 
The problem for us greying cheapskates is that the prices of "modern" cartridges are, to us, high for the quality you get. We wave our canes and say things like "Ayup, they don't make 'em like they used to, by cracky."

Yes, the AT95E is a good bang/buck cartridge and the versatile Ortofon Omega gets you into the OM system and both can be upgraded, but the best deals, at least in my opinion, are the ones you assemble yourself with a stylus here and a used body there, the more obscure and overlooked, the better. Whatever course you pursue, the better styli, which is where cartridge goodness inheres, are getting more and more expensive and harder to find. So if you were at all thinking of going 2000Z, get the stylus now.

Another tack: When a 1000ZE/X-family cartridge body, say a 999 PE/X, presents itself for cheap, say $13 shipped on eBay or similar, grab it and stuff a EVG-Japan generic 4236-ZDE stylus in it. Lots of bang for the buck, and if a genuine ZE/X stylus comes along (or if you can spring for a genuine VE/X stylus), you're ready. Just a suggestion.
 
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Absolutely spot on and excellent advice.....Much appreciated!
So I can gather from this conversation that my existing 3000 ME/X, is indeed a substandard cart. My Kenwood KR 9940 drives a pair of Pioneer CS R700's. that are crystal clear, and I've noticed strange separations in music, I know by heart. But even-so......it sounds so damn good, With clean vinyl, I'm still so amazed by the depth and power of the music, that I actually laugh out loud every-time I crank it up. ( which is as often as possible). Cash permitting, I would like to go back even further in time, to a tube system, knowing the richness of tone they provided. Why the industry gravitated away from such superb sound generating devices as these. dumbfounds the mind. ( CD's....What were we thinking ? ) Sadly, of course, we all know the answer, "money". The industry always trying to sell us the next greatest thing, and we swallowed it, "Hook,Line and Sinker"......Well, for me, it's time to spit it out. I'm off on a new quest.
Thanks again, for the words from the wise. Much Appreciated........Russ
 
Your 3000QE/X, a.k.a. 66QE/X, is by no means substandard. It's quite good, actually. It's just that there are several other Empires that are more highly regarded by some of us. To be specific, there are the 2000Z and all it's twins, and the 1000ZE/X, 999VE/X and others in this series. I have examples of all three types and wouldn't like to part with any of them.

John
 
I have 2 that were given to me to see what I could do with them. An 8000 EX III, and an EXL-10. I was told they are a 2000 variant. Any recommendations on stylus options? I picked up a $10.00 generic stylus, and it seems to work on both, but don't know just how far they can be taken.
 
The experience collected in this thread shows that a random blob-on-clip Empire body is much more likely to be a 66 clone than a 2000 clone. It would be great if you could give us a photo of the 8000EX III. Even better would be an ohmmeter reading from its terminals.
 
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The EXL-10 is a 66 clone. It was originally shipped with an S906E elliptical stylus which, along with the S906 conical, is currently the most readily available original stylus. The S910E and S912E are the better styli from that series but they're extremely rare. I can find nothing about an 8000 EX III but the 8000 III is yet another 66PE/X clone, originally shipped with an S910E stylus.

John
 
The EXL-10 is a 66-series clone, and probably so is the 8000EXIII, but we'd need an ohmmeter reading of the body to be certain.

The experience collected in this thread shows that a random blob-on-clip Empire body is much more likely to be a 66 clone than a 2000 clone.
Happy to meet you Sir Walta. If I'm here on AK I owe it to you. Some years ago I was looking for some news about the Sherwood AM 7040 and I saw your posts here on the site and I decided to sign up. :)
 
Hey, thanks! Nothing better than an Empire cartridge played through a big ol' MOSFET amp somewhere in Italy!
 
The EXL-10 is a 66 clone. It was originally shipped with an S906E elliptical stylus which, along with the S906 conical, is currently the most readily available original stylus. The S910E and S912E are the better styli from that series but they're extremely rare. I can find nothing about an 8000 EX III but the 8000 III is yet another 66PE/X clone, originally shipped with an S910E stylus.

John

Just looked up stylus and it seems the 2000 series also fit these. I also see it can take up to a shibata as well. Don't know if I'd go that high, but I'm wondering if Lp gears stylus are much better than pfanstiehl, may try one of their stylus to compare.

Thanks for the responses guys, and yes the 8000 III is what I meant.
 
They fit, yes, but the bodies are electrically different so the styli for one series will sound "off" in the other series body. If memory serves, the 2000 through 2000E/III are of higher inductance than the 66 series bodies. That would mean that you'd get a boost in the treble response if you used a 2000 through 2000E/III stylus in a 66 body. I could have this backwards. I don't have the inductance figures for these two series etched into my memory (but I'll bet wualta does). But the general answer is that using styli intended for one body in a body with different inductance can screw up the tonal balance.

[EDIT] After consulting the above mentioned oracle, I can confirm that the 2000 through 2000E/III has the higher inductance, about 600mH as against about 350mH for the 66 series.

John
 
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