anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

[ASeattle]

Here's an update that may help explain the above twisted cantilever: I posted a little ways back in this thread about a stylus for my Empire 8000 that had misaligned cantilever. Turntable Needles said they would exchange it no problem. I sent it back and they said there are number of that model with the same cantilever issue. But they said the stylus was in the right position to track perfectly in the groove. So apparently, even though the cantilever was misaligned, the stylus was put on at the correct angle during manufacturing. Mine sounded good. But TTN had one with a correctly aligned cantilever and they sent it to me yesterday.

 

[Yuaaaaaaaaan]

Does anyone have any information about the empire 3000 I cart? I did not find much information online.
What is a modern equivalent cart? Thank you.

 

[russdall]

Does anyone have any information about the empire 3000 I cart? I did not find much information online.
What is a modern equivalent cart? Thank you.

Have you measured the resistance and or the inductance of the cart? That's the best way of determining what it is. It is most likely a 66 clone, from what I've seen, most 3000 series are, but with Empire, ya just never know for sure, until the readings are verified.

Here's another good resource for Empire information;
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....ance-resistance-for-2000-style-bodies.827938/

 

[russdall]

Ok, Being an original owner in the early 70's of a Empire 4000D II and obtaining several Empire carts and styli, with the help of many here on this very forum.
And having just listened to three consecutive LP's from the same artist, I've come to this one, brilliant conclusion, The Empire 2000Z, was specifically designed for listening to ZZ Top, at very high volume ......Just Sayin'

 

[boreas]

We must all do so immediately!

 

[wualta]

Es muss sein!

 

[russdall]

Es muss sein!

"Es konnte auch anders sein" My friend Z

 

[wualta]

And of course we're referring to The Unbearable Lightness of Tracking at One Gram by Milan Kundera, in which he states "einmal ist keinmal", or, "tracking at one gram is like tracking at no force at all", an answer to all his Victrola-wielding detractors.

 

[Grainger49]

Light tracking is best with a low mass arm. And possibly a damping mechanism made from a parts tray and STP oil treatment. Otherwise you are in trouble.

I once had a Vestigial arm.

 

[icenine]

Empire EXL-20 with a cheap 4237-D7C stylus for which I paid $14. Are there any really nice needles left for these cartridges?

 

[boreas]

The S906E, the base elliptical, is a surprisingly good stylus but getting harder to find. Wualta recently got an S906 conical to evaluate ($20 @VoM) and, as I recall, he liked it. The S910E and S912E styli are essentially gone.

 

[icenine]

I saw that one at VoM it is a 4239-D7C where mine is a 4237-D7C so I think I have almost the same one. Mine is red.
I was going to get this one but I don't think it works with the EXL-20 but does with the EXL-30.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201538671413?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

No affiliation. Description says not compatible with the 237 stylus.

Thanks Boreas

 

[desertrat748]

I saw that one at VoM it is a 4239-D7C where mine is a 4237-D7C so I think I have almost the same one. Mine is red.
I was going to get this one but I don't think it works with the EXL-20 but does with the EXL-30.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201538671413?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

No affiliation. Description says not compatible with the 237 stylus.

Thanks Boreas

That gold stylus is going to work for exl-30 or any 2000z clone. The shank on those are 1/2 the size of any of the exl 20 , 66, 2000 E/iii etc.

 

[boreas]

I'm talking about the 239-D7C and the 239-DEC. These are genuine Empires and are for the 66 Series Empires and their clones which is what the EXL-20 is and what the EXL-30 is not. The 239-DET and the generic 4239-DET have a smaller diameter insertion tube and will not fit ANY OTHER EMPIRE other than the 2000T, 2000S and their clones which include the EXL-30.

The 237- styli are for the 2000 through 2000EIII, except for the 237-DEZ which is for the 2000Z and features the same small diameter insertion tube that characterizes the 239-DET.

Although except as noted regarding the 239-DET and 237-DEZ, the other 239 and 237 styli are physically interchangeable, They aren't, however, cross-compatible electrically. The reason is that the 66 Series and clones like the EXL-20 have far lower inductance than the 2000 through 2000EIII, about 50% less, so mismatched cartridges and styli will sound either dull or excessively bright, depending on the combination. So, I would stick with the 239 styli for your EXL-20 (except the 239-DET).

Now you know why this thread is 200 pages long and still growing. Empires are very confusing.

 

[Joel66]

I picked up a MCS 6602 last month that was sporting an Empire. All I know for sure is that it is a 2000. It sounds fantastic.

 

[russdall]

I picked up a MCS 6602 last month that was sporting an Empire. All I know for sure is that it is a 2000. It sounds fantastic.

That's Good News
By the markings, it appears to be a 2000E I......But the only way to tell for sure is by taking resistance and inductance readings from the cart itself.
Please let us know if you do, and we will post the readings on the new Empire thread............Thanks !

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....ance-resistance-for-2000-style-bodies.827938/

 

[Joel66]

That's Good News
By the markings, it appears to be a 2000E I......But the only way to tell for sure is by taking resistance and inductance readings from the cart itself.
Please let us know if you do, and we will post the readings on the new Empire thread............Thanks !

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....ance-resistance-for-2000-style-bodies.827938/

I've been meaning to get to Harbor Freight and pick up a meter. I'm just afraid of getting the leads off the cart and, because of my eyesight and shaky hands, not being able to get them back on. Lol

 

[russdall]

I've been meaning to get to Harbor Freight and pick up a meter. I'm just afraid of getting the leads off the cart and, because of my eyesight and shaky hands, not being able to get them back on. Lol

Here's a nice one a lot of us use, for not much $$

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP4070D-Mi...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649

 

[wualta]

...I'm just afraid of getting the leads off the cart and, because of my eyesight and shaky hands, not being able to get them back on.

Good news: no need to disconnect any leads. If you have your cartridge installed in a removable headshell, first remove the stylus for safety. Then you can pop the headshell off the tonearm and take your readings from the little button contacts on the headshell's tail. Alternatively, you can poke your probes at the metal clips on the headshell leads. Let us know how this goes.

 

[boreas]

@Joel66, as russdall said, your cartridge appears to be a 2000E/I (or E/II or E/III depending on how much of the ink has worn off) but the cartridges themselves are all the same. The markings which follow the "2000" merely define the stylus that was originally fitted. Yours appears to be fitted with an aftermarket copy of the S2000 conical stylus. It was the base stylus for that series of cartridges, the 2000 through 2000E/III and, despite being the bottom of the range, it's a delightful sounding stylus. This is all the more pleasing because, unlike the upper level styli, the original styli are still available. And CHEAP! ~$25.00 shipped at our favorite source for styli, V-M Audio Enthusiasts. (Look for the 239-D7C.) Since (I assume) the condition of your stylus is unknown, I'd recommend getting one while they're still to be got.