anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

[salamander]

You've pretty much put your finger on it. The 2000E family body is almost the same electrically and actually is the same physically. I suppose if you could find a BC1 body you could use it to tame bright 66-clone styli, but 2000E-family bodies are far more common.

However, I've found that my apparently original-genuine SBC-1 stylus does not sound at all treble-boosted in a body less than one-third the BC1's inductance. Also that it doesn't track well at 2g, all of which is puzzling. Some day I'll have to crank it up to 3g and see how it does.
Here's a jpg of the specs (taken from the box):
View attachment 1250591

Hello ! Let me tell you about my BC-1. When the force of 2 grams -tracking is excellent . Also, there are no problems with the bass sound deep and dynamic . And high frequencies are very clear . I love the sound of this cartridge . The needle is original . Usually apply a force of 2.5 grams

 

[bobins08]

In the absence of direct original Empire styli (which, sadly, is true in all but a few cases) my "go-to" styli have become the original Empire conical styli for the series in question. With respect to the 2000E/III, that stylus is the S2000 (or 237-D7C). It tracks at close to 1g and sounds really good. Gary at tVoM has them for $20.00 or so.

Boreas,

Thanks for the tip. I bought the conical 237-D7C for my 2000e/III. I have about 3 hours on it over the past 2 days and really liking it. I had an Empire 2000e/I back when I was 17 and the very first play took my back to that sound. No kidding. Wow.

I forget how smooth this cartridge sounds but it came back to me. Very balanced, nice inner details, and the channel separation really stands out.

Would love to find a NOS .2x.7 elliptical. Do any of the aftermarkets sound better than this humble conical?

I am running it at 1.5 grams, right in the middle of its spec range. What vtf do you prefer?

Cheers, Bob

PS - I am also auditioning a 4822-DEE on my Stanton 681-EEE. Talk about two different house sounds between it and the Empire. Having a great time listening to these vintage cartridges.

 

[boreas]

Glad you're liking it. Not bad for $20, eh? I run mine 1.25g.

 

[By-Tor]

I would kill to find an original 395LT - or even just that stylus! <sigh....>

Vinylmasters, you are in luck then. Gary has some in stock still at VoM, 246-DE for $35, He also has the next higher up in the chain 246-dex for $40.

 

[Vinylmasters]

Vinylmasters, you are in luck then. Gary has some in stock still at VoM, 246-DE for $35, He also has the next higher up in the chain 246-dex for $40.

I meant the cartridge itself! I have both of those styli though, as well as the conical.

 

[bobins08]

Vinylmasters, you are in luck then. Gary has some in stock still at VoM, 246-DE for $35, He also has the next higher up in the chain 246-dex for $40.

Can these styli fit on a 2000E cartridge body?

 

[Vinylmasters]

Can these styli fit on a 2000E cartridge body?

I don't have a 2000E to try it on, but they don't look alike at all.

 

[wualta]

Can these styli fit on a 2000E cartridge body?

In a word, no. Even if you could get the plastic bits to stop interfering with the clip and wider body, the fit of the insertion shank-tube in the body is loose, and then there's the moving-magnet-stylus-in-a-moving-iron body problem. It might be made to work, but in my opinion it ain't worth it.

I am, as I said earlier, on the lookout for standard-mount bodies that will accept the 246-Dsomething styli.

 

[Vinylmasters]

Hopefully, that won't be necessary.

Nope! Found one on that auction site with an original stylus. Sounds incredible!

 

[bobins08]

In a word, no. Even if you could get the plastic bits to stop interfering with the clip and wider body, the fit of the insertion shank-tube in the body is loose, and then there's the moving-magnet-stylus-in-a-moving-iron body problem. It might be made to work, but in my opinion it ain't worth it.

I am, as I said earlier, on the lookout for standard-mount bodies that will accept the 246-Dsomething styli.

Well you sure knew where I was going with that question.

Thanks, Bob

 

[wualta]

I mentioned the less-than-common Empire ICS 400 awhile back (post #341). This is the integrated-headshell version of the 400 TC. I finally got hold of the 1982 test by Julian Hirsch, and his impressions were generally favorable. Note that he was unable to test the ICS 400 without adding its auxiliary weight. I measure a 10 Hz resonant frequency in my Technics arm, but I also keep a variety of counterweights handy in order that they hug the pivot as closely as possible.

This is the only test of any version of the 400 TC that I've been able to find¹, which makes me a little sad. Here are the graphs, so you can get a quick look.


¹Consumer Reports tested it in the June 1982 issue

 

[bobins08]

Anyone know how a 999 series body would compare to the 2000 series?

 

[russdall]

Anyone know how a 999 series body would compare to the 2000 series?

I have a 999 XE/X with an original stylus, that makes "a red-head step child" outta my 2000E/ III........Just Sayin'

Oh, and the 2000E has an original Empire stylus on it also.

 

[russdall]

OK, I'll open up another can of worms.

Who,what,where has the best "bang for the buck" TC40 stylus.......if it's still obtainable.......

 

[boreas]

Anyone know how a 999 series body would compare to the 2000 series?

The blob on clip 999s are 66 clones.

 

[boreas]

OK, I'll open up another can of worms.

Who,what,where has the best "bang for the buck" TC40 stylus.......if it's still obtainable.......

The green S44E. Very hard to find.

 

[wualta]

Who,what,where has the best "bang for the buck" TC40 stylus.......if it's still obtainable.......

If you're asking which 241/242 stylus, generic or genuine, has the highest bang/buck ratio, I'd say it's still the 4241-DID and 4242-DEX generic twins, but that's if you want an elliptical. If a 3.5g-VTF conical is okay with you, then it's probably the yellow 241-D7 (S100) original-genuine, though there I'm relying on the good reports of others, added to my experiences with other original-genuine Empire conicals-- I haven't heard the 241-D7 myself.

 

[russdall]

The blob on clip 999s are 66 clones

I hear ya John, but the one I have reads; 999 XE/X.........R 274 mH........L 272 mH. I'd say that's pretty low for a 66 clone.

 

[russdall]

I'd say it's still the 4241-DID and 4242-DEX generic twins, but that's if you want an elliptical.

Thanks Walt, I noticed Gary has both of these ( $28.00 each ). My TC40 came with the light green, (242-DET) that crumbled into pieces when trying to remove it. I was able to save the 0.2 x 0.7 mil cantilever. I'm wondering if I purchased an inexpensive 4241-D7 ( $14.00 ) I could do a little switcheroo with the canti.......Scary thought with my club fingers........but possible? Oh, and the bushing on the original 242-DET, looks to be in good shape also.

 

[boreas]

I hear ya John, but the one I have reads; 999 XE/X.........R 274 mH........L 272 mH. I'd say that's pretty low for a 66 clone.

Based on my two examples, both around 325mH, yours would be an outlier and, since those readings don't correspond to other 999XE/Xs or any other Empire model, it would be wrong to draw any broader conclusions based on those readings.