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anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

Discussion in 'Turntables' started by gadget73, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. russdall

    russdall Active Member

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    Ok, so I tried the white 4239-PDE on the 2000E III. I found it a little too subdued for my taste. I don't want to loose it's "perkiness" so to speak.
    In my collection, I found a smokey ( almost black ) stylus, with an embossed Empire, flip down guard, that sounds pretty decent. The lettering isn't colored and I didn't have it labeled, so I'm at a loss as to what is, but it will get me through until the Rawn process is finished. Whatever it is, it doesn't have a tapered cantilever.......But on the up side, it has no pesky dots.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2018

     

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  2. boreas

    boreas "If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.

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    The slightly subdued nature may be due to the higher than spec inductance of your body

    The smokey cartridge isn't more brown than black, is it? If so, it's likely to be a 237-D7C.
     
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  3. russdall

    russdall Active Member

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    You are correct John, in better light, it did prove to have a brownish color to it. Thanks
     
  4. boreas

    boreas "If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.

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    I like that stylus a lot. Give it a spin.
     
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  5. wualta

    wualta permanently nonplussed cat Subscriber

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    I want in on the fun too, so I ordered the smoker stylus from Gary. If it's as good as the yellow 235-D7 from Our Lady of Needles...
     
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  6. boreas

    boreas "If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.

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    It's a jolly little fellow!
     
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  7. russdall

    russdall Active Member

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    Let us know of your impressions, after you smoke-da-smoker. Is it your intention to try it on a 2000E body?
     
  8. Starquest

    Starquest Super Member

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    It's probably subdued because the 4239-PDE is junk. I have one and it's just lethargic -- poor highs, poor stereo separation.

    I've been listening to that one lately. It has good bass, but there seems to be a really nasty spike in the mid-highs. Not smooth. Some guitars and vocals just shriek. It's sibilant on some records too.
     
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  9. russdall

    russdall Active Member

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    SQ, may I ask which Empire cart you're using and type of turntable?
     
  10. boreas

    boreas "If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.

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    Also, exactly which 4239-PDE, EVG or Pfanstiehl?

    And, given the apparently erratic nature of Empire's quality control, have you measured the coils?
     
  11. Starquest

    Starquest Super Member

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    A few different Technics models from the 70s. It's a 990 C/X, which I know is the same as a hundred others.

    The black EVG. The cart is fine, it just doesn't sound good. I've kind of given up on Empire. Side by side with any AT, it's a night and day difference.

    The one cart I would be interested in upgrading is my 999 VE/X, but only if I could find an OEM stylus.
     

     

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  12. wualta

    wualta permanently nonplussed cat Subscriber

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    Funny you should ask. You're not gonna believe this, but yes. I formed the intention, then set my terrible plan into motion. I roughly collared a 2000E/III body that lay hard by and did the deed. Since I didn't have the truly-necessary high-loft clip, I had to crank the arm on the SL-1700 Mk 2 all the way up and swap the thick rubber mat for a thin antistatic mat to bring the bottom edge of the stylus grip roughly parallel with the record surface.

    But at 1.85g, lemme tell ya, this thing is buttery, or maybe I should say ghee-y. The yellow 235-D7 is cheaper, but if you don't have a body for that one, but you do have a 2000E-family body, grab a 237-D7 before they're gone. No diasa here, just the normal metal bushing. You won't regret it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018
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  13. desertrat748

    desertrat748 Active Member

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    Setting up a new house and dug out a turntable. Ran the 2000Z at first but too subtle w Sansui receiver, no phono preamp just whatever Sansui has. Swapped out with a 2000iii and noticed improved dynamics!

    Bass, mids and highs all there. It’s a nice swap out and doing great. The little 2000e/iii has its place. Just see above.
     
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  14. cafe latte

    cafe latte Active Member

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    Sorry if already answered but I have an Empire 888 with the most worn stylus I have ever seen under a microscope it is scary and it sound worse. Really want to hear this cart, what is the best of these OM stylus I can fit?
    Cheers
    Chris
     
  15. boreas

    boreas "If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.

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  16. russdall

    russdall Active Member

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    I will have to agree, the 237-D7/smoker on the 2000E/III is mighty sweet. I am running mine at 1.33g, maybe I'll try it at 1.85g to see if I can replicate your "Land_O_Lakes" experience. I have the 2000E/III on my Pioneer PL-518, I don't believe it's capable of sounding Ghee-y. Of course with some ghee, I could produce and drink some bhang. That might enhance the listening experience.........LOL
     

     

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  17. boreas

    boreas "If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.

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    1.33g is a bit light. I run mine at 1.75g.

    But it's wise to remember that these are quite old and have suspensions in varying states of fettle. So, you're likely to find that the ideal VTF will vary from example to example.
     
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  18. boreas

    boreas "If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.

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    I just picked up a spare 237-D7C before all you piranhas gobble the rest of them up. ;)
     
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  19. russdall

    russdall Active Member

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    Now see what you did John.....I just had to go buy another one, because of your statements. LOL!
     
  20. wualta

    wualta permanently nonplussed cat Subscriber

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    I should add that I didn't arrive at 1.85g by a laborious process of iteration but rather by spinning the counterweight until I hit something close to 2g, figuring that if it had sufficient "sink" and sounded good, I could recommend that VTF as at least a starting point. 237-D7 specs:
    Empire 2000 specs-a.jpg
     
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