Anyone familiar with the KEF Reference Model One?

[vandalfsens]

My Polk RTI6 are the weakest link in my system which now consists of Adcom 2535 (I use the 4 channels to bi-wire my speakers), GFT-555ii and GFP-555ii.

I would likely bi-wire the KEF's as well. The 2535 puts out 90WPC into 4Ohms and I think that will be sufficient.

The reason I'm looking at them is because of what I've read about their sound and because they are often reasonably priced. I haven't heard them personally yet.

I have already performed a lot of research but would like the collective expertise of the group as well.

I want to know about problems that seem to be typical of buying older speakers in general:

• Are the surrounds foam or some other material?
  
• Do they degrade?
  
• Are the crossovers electrolytic and do they degrade over time as well?
  
• Is the tweeter fluid-cooled and does it dry out?

Anything else I should be aware of when looking at these or the 103/# series?

Deeply appreciate your help.

 

[DOBIEGUY]

I'm thinking you have the model designations confused. The KEF REF One is an $8K speaker and the KEF 103/# is 25+ years old. The KEF Ref 101 is a small two way that seems to command a premium price. The KEF 103/3 with the correct KUBE can be had for less. I own both, two very different speakers. Unless already overhauled, both will require attention.
Plenty of threads on the care and feeding of these great speakers.
Good luck.
Jimmy

 

[vandalfsens]

Thanks, Jimmy!
I'm referring to the KEF Reference Model One from the 90's, not the new "Reference 1"

 

[canuckaudiog]

They're supposed to be nice speakers. I don't recall which generation of Uni-Q these have, but they made some significant improvements by this point.

In terms of restoration needed, it's difficult to say without pulling them apart. My experience is only with the 80s reference models. This model, no clue. My advice would be, if you pick these up, contact KEF and ask for any service information they have on them. For example, KEF sent me the official disassembly instructions for the 104/2 model which was very helpful.

 

[arts]

Since 1997 I've been using KEF Reference 104/2's. Replaced the foam woofer donuts (the surrounds are rubber in my ''older'' model) re-capped the crossover and replaced the tweeters with the usual VIFA type many years ago.I listen to many styles of music,and these could do them all very well.
I've never found a speaker that could better them in ALL areas,but I'd always wanted to try the later Reference Model series.

Well,I recently purchased a pair of absolutely mint (complete with boxes,all packaging materials and literature) KEF Reference Model 3's.The difference was astonishing!
With the Uni-Q driver,the whole room has become the sweet spot. This model has rubber woofer surrounds;can't say for the other models.All models have rubber surrounds for the midrange units.I have yet to look at the crossover,but KEF usually used electrolytics.If either the crossover or the ferrofluid has degraded,I certainly cannot hear it.

Keep in mind that KEF speakers are very ''honest'' speakers in that what you put in is what you get out.Many people accuse them of being too ''laid-back''. That's because they are accurate,not exaggerated!While I believe every Model in this range is a winner, personally I'd try for the Model 2's.Not much more money,but much better low end.

Good luck,

Art

 

[vandalfsens]

That is very helpful, thanks!

There's always a trade off- the newer the speakers p, they may not need as much love but will cost more up front whereas the older models are more reasonable but will almost always need something- surrounds, tweeters, crossovers.

I'm trying to strike a balance since I'm not a very capable diy'er.

But the more I hear about kef reference the more I want them.

 

[arts]

One thing to consider is that,relatively speaking,the Reference Model series are more ''modern'' speakers than the 1xx Reference series. To date (and believe me,I did lot's of research on these!) I have yet to find any evidence of these models suffering from ferrofluid,surround or crossover failures.

The only negative comments I have found were concerning difficulty in locating replacement tweeters. When I consider the overall quality of KEF products in general,and the relative efficiency of these speakers,I can only conclude that these failures were due to abuse on the part of the owners,and in no way related to any product limitations.

 

[MrLem]

Sorry I'm late...

I have the KEF Model 2.2 and spent quite a while on research because I don't get out enough. Here's some answers mixed in with random facts:

The point two models while appearing the same actually had new mid and high drivers and a new crossover with some film caps, which I don't think the mark ones had. However all Model One and Twos have at least some electrolytics. I think I might once have heard a rumour that the caps in the mark 1 models degraded prematurely but I may even have dreamt that so I wouldn't put too much stock unless you can verify. I'm probably going to have mine overhauled in the near future so I'll post again with how much, if any, difference it makes.

All Model 1 and Model 2s (mark one and two) had foam surrounds and doughnuts which KEF recommend replacing at around the 16 year mark, although imo they're being perfectionists and you can get away with longer. It's not a very expensive job and generally not really a big thing but is worth knowing. The Model 3 and 4s used rubber so don't need much maintenance.

While it's not super-low in the One and Two, all of the Models have plenty of fulsome bass. The main concern you have with bass is these are big speakers designed for big rooms and it can be too much if they're up against a wall in a small room, even with the bass attenuators if they have them.

In terms of general character, the Models are said to be the last References made in the traditional KEF voicing and are basically a development of the previous range. Everything after is the new KEF sound. I've heard a few fairly knowledgeable folk including KEF staff say that the Models are their favourite Refs. Looking at the basic design I'd guess that KEF decided to based the Models on the 104/2 and for the new generation made basically the same design in different sizes rather than having completely different models forming a Reference range. It is notable that the Model 4.2 has the same treble and upper mid range driver as the Model 1.2.

KEF in England no longer have the tweeters but do still have some more modern substitutes which are pretty much as good. There are no mid-range drivers left and no substitutes.

The tweeters do contain ferro-fluid and while I've not heard of any Models having dried up it's something which will need doing at some point, unless you replace them with the spares which do not have fluid (I think).

You're right about the price, I only watch the UK market because that's where I am but they've been going cheap for a few months over here. I think they've not yet quite made it to classic age / status like the previous Reference ranges but expect that to change.

You're right to consider the amp. I ran mine for a bit with a NAD C370 which has reputation for handling tricky loads and to my surprise it really struggled. I have mine bi-amped with Primares now and it's made a big difference. I've heard tell of some very expensive amps not being able to handle Models, but on the other hand I've heard of some very cheap ones which just seemed to get along with them so luck may be an element. Also I'd imagine of all the Models the One would be the easiest to drive.

 

[vandalfsens]

WOW MrLem, that is a ton of great information, thank you! I am still considering the Reference series but also recently became acquainted with the C80. Apparently this speaker also has a real wood veneer and KEF's "Conjugated Load" technology but it is not Uni-Q.

There's not a lot of information out there but what I do find is high marks for the racetrack woofer and overall sound, while not quite up to Reference standards. It does have the same T33 tweeter but the other drivers are different than the 104/2.

I would be interested in it because of the lower investment and possibly easier to work on, given the more traditional drivers.

 

[ditton works]

Sorry I'm late...

I have the KEF Model 2.2 and spent quite a while on research because I don't get out enough. Here's some answers mixed in with random facts:

The point two models while appearing the same actually had new mid and high drivers and a new crossover with some film caps, which I don't think the mark ones had. However all Model One and Twos have at least some electrolytics. I think I might once have heard a rumour that the caps in the mark 1 models degraded prematurely but I may even have dreamt that so I wouldn't put too much stock unless you can verify. I'm probably going to have mine overhauled in the near future so I'll post again with how much, if any, difference it makes.

All Model 1 and Model 2s (mark one and two) had foam surrounds and doughnuts which KEF recommend replacing at around the 16 year mark, although imo they're being perfectionists and you can get away with longer. It's not a very expensive job and generally not really a big thing but is worth knowing. The Model 3 and 4s used rubber so don't need much maintenance.

While it's not super-low in the One and Two, all of the Models have plenty of fulsome bass. The main concern you have with bass is these are big speakers designed for big rooms and it can be too much if they're up against a wall in a small room, even with the bass attenuators if they have them.

In terms of general character, the Models are said to be the last References made in the traditional KEF voicing and are basically a development of the previous range. Everything after is the new KEF sound. I've heard a few fairly knowledgeable folk including KEF staff say that the Models are their favourite Refs. Looking at the basic design I'd guess that KEF decided to based the Models on the 104/2 and for the new generation made basically the same design in different sizes rather than having completely different models forming a Reference range. It is notable that the Model 4.2 has the same treble and upper mid range driver as the Model 1.2.

KEF in England no longer have the tweeters but do still have some more modern substitutes which are pretty much as good. There are no mid-range drivers left and no substitutes.

The tweeters do contain ferro-fluid and while I've not heard of any Models having dried up it's something which will need doing at some point, unless you replace them with the spares which do not have fluid (I think).

You're right about the price, I only watch the UK market because that's where I am but they've been going cheap for a few months over here. I think they've not yet quite made it to classic age / status like the previous Reference ranges but expect that to change.

You're right to consider the amp. I ran mine for a bit with a NAD C370 which has reputation for handling tricky loads and to my surprise it really struggled. I have mine bi-amped with Primares now and it's made a big difference. I've heard tell of some very expensive amps not being able to handle Models, but on the other hand I've heard of some very cheap ones which just seemed to get along with them so luck may be an element. Also I'd imagine of all the Models the One would be the easiest to drive.

Wow great info
I have just purchased my first pair of Kef Reference (model one) I've always opted for Celestion as I worked for them in the 90's.
Anyway these model ones, after lots and lots of room positioning I am quite pleased.
However I have a question.
As the model ones only have a single cavity bass unit why would it need the doughnut?
I haven't opened mine up to check the condition yet.
Now after reading this thread I'm going to investigate both the foam on the bass units and the ferro fluid for the tweeters.

 

[greymatter]

I would keep a eye out for a pair of 104.2 , they can be had for 400.00 and even if they need the surrounds done and the ferro fluid replaced it not a hard job and are very nice sounding speakers . Your ears will be the judge .

 

[JohnnyNapalm]

Hi ditton works, I bought a brand new pair of Reference 1’s back in the day and bought them for their detailed sound. I came from Wharfedale Vanguards which were good speakers but the clarity of the Kef’s were a big step up. Although I missed the low end thud I was more than happy with them. I sold them to one of my friends who still has them and bought a pair of 3.2’s which I still have and am not sure if I will ever sell them. I also have a pair of 4.2’s which are my fronts and a 200C centre. This is the setup I chased for 10 years. I believe the issue you mention is from the earlier series with regards the foam but have heard about the NT25’s being better following a service. Not sure whether to have a go at that or just get replacements from Kef (NT19). Decisions, decisions... Cheers.