Are A/V companies ignoring Home Music Servers?

[resqguy]

I'm starting to see more and more people interested in media servers and file based media content managers (including myself). Computer and component makers have stepped into the market (HP, Creative Labs, M-Audio, etc) but I haven't seen any products from A/V companies.

I'm surprised that Harmon and D&M are still offering the same old products; disk players, receivers, and speakers. Are these companies being pressured by the media companies?

I can't bring myself to completly bypass my A/V processor, but I'm getting close. If someone made a soundcard with balanced outputs to my power amp I'd jump on it.

I get that A/V companies probably don't want to get into the computer business because of the difficulties relating to Technical Support but you would think the bigger A/V companies could partner with the computer companies like HP or even Gateway. I mean they did that with car audio.

I think A/V companies need to address this trend or they are going to get hurt. What do you think?

 

[kretinus]

Ask how everyone you know outside of the audio hobby if they even know what a media server is, there's your answer.

When most people see my Soundbridge and I explain what it is, their eyes glaze over

 

[geespot]

Some of the higher level Denon receivers have media capability; Onkyo had a network media receiver a few years back.

 

[Fred Sanford]

Some companies concentrated on those products from the start, and have had good units on the market for years.

www.request.com is one. Fireball from www.escient.com is another.

je

 

[resqguy]

Ask how everyone you know outside of the audio hobby if they even know what a media server is, there's your answer.

Ten years ago if you mentioned Dolby Digital to the average person their eyes would glaze over as well. I will grant you that this is a new trend that is in the early adopter stage but the big A/V companies better get on board soon.

Some of the higher level Denon receivers have media capability

They do, and along with the kitchen sink, for $7k you can get a full featured receiver. It seems like they just through everything at that receiver. I'm not convinced that Denon is commited to this type of functionality.

Some companies concentrated on those products from the start, and have had good units on the market for years. www.request.com is one. Fireball from www.escient.com is another.

Those look interesting but these are small niche companies and some are just doing the job of PC integrator.

What I'm looking for is a soundcard from Lexicon or Yamaha that has all the suround sound modes and signal processing function of their pre/pros. Another example would be a HTPC made by D&M, Harmon Intl, or etc. that is based on a PC but with the audio and video features of a pre/pro.

It seems that big A/V companies are trying to compete with this technology instead of embracing it.

 

[MisterFishey]

I'm starting to see more and more people interested in media servers and file based media content managers (including myself). Computer and component makers have stepped into the market (HP, Creative Labs, M-Audio, etc) but I haven't seen any products from A/V companies.

That's not true. Sony has the NAC-HD1, Onkyo has the HDC-1.0(S), and Harmon/Kardon has the DMC-1000, in addition to McIntosh's MS750. They're out there, you just need to know where to look. Which happens to be Japan. :thmbsp:

I am considering getting one, but they are quite expensive as of now. I could get a bigger hard drive and a very good sound card for the price of one of those servers. If the price would drop to the price of a good CDP, then I would get one.

 

[Fred Sanford]

Some companies concentrated on those products from the start, and have had good units on the market for years. www.request.com is one. Fireball from www.escient.com is another.

Those look interesting but these are small niche companies and some are just doing the job of PC integrator.

Those companies design and mainly market to the whole-house audio integration contractors- systems that generally include at least 6-8 zones of audio throughout the home. They give a user-friendly GUI to search through your audio & video collections and play/stream them to various rooms or local AV systems in the building or sometimes remotely (I can stream or download from my servers from anywhere there's net access, or set up I-radio stations from them). The ReQuest is also now playing nice with ITunes, and will automatically backup any music added to computers within their home network. Fun stuff.

Some Yamaha receivers will also stream music from various PCs on their home network.

je

 

[Face]

It's up and coming. Along with the brands already mentioned, the new Marantz has this capability, I'm sure it'll trickle down to other brands and lower lines soon enough.

 

[uofmtiger]

They do, and along with the kitchen sink, for $7k you can get a full featured receiver. It seems like they just through everything at that receiver. I'm not convinced that Denon is commited to this type of functionality.

I have a 3808CI and it was just a little of $1100 (including a 3 year warranty) when I bought it back in December. I would think it would be cheaper now.

I have a media computer in the same setup, but I have tried out the features. I have Orb installed on one of my computers and it connects and plays the files without a hitch. I do have issues with Tversity that I never bothered researching. Also, it has a USB input, which I could not test because of its FAT16/32 limitations. However, it is supposed to handle mp3 or FLAC.

I have used the radio stations that are built in and it works without any problems.

In other words, they have what you are asking for.

 

[bholio]

I'm surprised that Harmon and D&M are still offering the same old products; disk players, receivers, and speakers. Are these companies being pressured by the media companies?

D&M owns escient, which does high end media servers.

I believe that one of the issues is the legality of a video server. I don't think there is any truly legal way to copy a DVD to a video server in the US due to the DMCA. So, any video server is a legal problem waiting to happen. Do any of the computer based solutions create a DVD library?

Video has so many wiring schemes. Composite, svideo, HDMI, component etc. Different display devices need different cabling.

Another issue is that there are so many different ways to configure a centralized system. Do you send speaker level output from a central multi-room amp, like Kustom? Do you send digital data to remote playback devices like sonos or squeezebox? Lots of variations in the wiring requirements. Its hard enough to figure this out in a single home (still working on it in mine), even tougher to make it work in a generic product, especially in a consumer level self-installed product. Then there is the issue of control and song selection.

I think Sonos and Squeeze are on the right track. Don't get into the server business, concentrate on the playback side of things. Microsoft makes it relatively easy to create a shared drive in Windows. Probably just as simple in Linux.

 

[steerpike2]

Revox M37 and M57 (160GB internal HDD)

 

[Fred Sanford]

http://www.kaleidescape.com/

 

[resqguy]

Thanks for all the product links. I just searched the home pages of the parent companies for Harmon and D&M and didn't find anything. It's great to see the range of innovative products.

I believe that one of the issues is the legality of a video server. I don't think there is any truly legal way to copy a DVD to a video server in the US due to the DMCA. So, any video server is a legal problem waiting to happen. Do any of the computer based solutions create a DVD library?

We could go on and on about the copyright situation. I don't know about the turnkey media servers but there are plenty of software products available in the US that will allow "ripping" (I prefer the term "ingest" which is what the content management industry uses) from DVD and even Blu-ray to a file based format. The only format that seems to have strong copyright protection is SACD.

Another issue is that there are so many different ways to configure a centralized system. Do you send speaker level output from a central multi-room amp, like Kustom? Do you send digital data to remote playback devices like sonos or squeezebox? Lots of variations in the wiring requirements. Its hard enough to figure this out in a single home (still working on it in mine), even tougher to make it work in a generic product, especially in a consumer level self-installed product. Then there is the issue of control and song selection.

This is where the main players have to come together. That is why I brought up D&M (which I refer to as the General Motors of the A/V industry) and Harmon Intl. (which is almost like Ford). They are the ones that need to establish the "norms or standards" for this type of technology. Right now, they seem to be following and not leading. Microsoft seems to be the one that has contributed the most.

Personally, on the audio side I would like to see digital right up to the speaker, just like there is on the video side (with HDMI there is digital right up to the display device).

My wish list would include products that would benefit the audiophile hobbyist.

An audiophile grade sound card would be a good start. Creative and Auzentech make great cards but I don't think they can replace the pre/pro just yet since they lack features like balanced outputs.

Another product would be a simple pre/pro that accepts up to a 192k digital audio bitstream with full processing features (music surround modes) and balanced outputs (this is not your kids MP3 player). I think $1k would be a good price point. I want to continue to use my existing amps.

 

[uofmtiger]

As was mentioned via a link above, Kaleidescape is the only company that I know of that has won in court on the DVD copying issue. I think we will find out more down the road if they decide to sue someone that has ripped to a hard drive because many people are doing this to make their video portable. Of course, the RIAA does not believe that CD copying is legal, so even burning CDs you are risking a lawsuit. However, unless you are sharing your files on the web, I am not sure how they would know what you are doing for your own use at home.

I have noticed that some DVDs and Bluray discs are actually including a copy of the movie that you can "legally" put on your computer. Also, video servers are not only for DVD copies. Many computers have OTA tuners for recording and there are firewire capable cable boxes and 169time firewire for satellite. These can record high def programming to a computer.

 

[resqguy]

However, unless you are sharing your files on the web, I am not sure how they would know what you are doing for your own use at home.

My opinion on how to fix this is to require any player, that can decode digital media, encode a "certificate" into the data stream. The certificate is registered to the owner of the player. That would make the file content tracable to the person that ripped (ingested) it. Any file missing the certificate would be considered an illegal copy. Seems like a simple solution to me.

 

[uofmtiger]

My opinion on how to fix this is to require any player, that can decode digital media, encode a "certificate" into the data stream. The certificate is registered to the owner of the player. That would make the file content tracable to the person that ripped (ingested) it. Any file missing the certificate would be considered an illegal copy. Seems like a simple solution to me.

So how would that work on home movies?

 

[Vesuv1us]

What do you think M4a/M4b, wma, and other file formats are? It isn't simple. It also isn't difficult to get around if you know how to use google.

I also don't believe in the PC being a processing component in an audio system, as there are far too many variables that can create sound anomolies. As a source component, abso-freckin-lutely. But the day I have to point my big-ass remote to my PC on *cough* Vista (ME revision 2 in my opinion) or any M$ product will be a sad day for the higher-end audio community.

 

[Madman007]

I'm a little surprised that people with some high-end audio are mentioning wanting to play music off a soundcard in their PC, short of a very expensive pro recording model but even then the inside of a PC makes for a bad audio environment not to mention compromises required to conform to PC standards such as layout etc. I pray you mean out of a S/PDIF or optical connection and not an analog out, otherwise you're really wasting all that top-end gear, and if that's not what was meant it should have been

Having said that it's not being ignored at all. While not h$ghend the Slimdevices and now Logitech squeezebox has been out for a while. It takes a little DIY in setting up the PC but it's not that hard and if someone wants to make a media server they can do so with any old regular PC. The non-computer savvy should look at it as a learning experience in the next wave of audio/video. They even make a highend one called the Transporter which does have balanced outputs and other fanciness.

 

[Vesuv1us]

This server fed into my MDA1000 outperforms about any other transport I have put into the same room.

The sound card is the older Creative Audigy 2 Platinum EX, with the outboard box and S/PDIF out to the MDA1000.

I also use a Hagaman USB Audio box in the car, which works superbly.