Are higher sampling rates ever better?

[House de Kris]

Just go with Double DSD and we can avoid this whole argument. 

My big issue is the presumption that 20kHz is the limit of human frequency response. This biological number is the foundation for Nyquist.

But it is based on a test of response to sine waves. I've long held that the human hearing system didn't evolve to detect sine waves but phases, arrival time deltas, and very complex clues about predators, mates, and meals. In other words, biologists are the weak link in digital audio.

None of the above deals with bit depth of course.

It is not clear to me what the point is you're trying to make. Our ability to detect phases, arrival times and complex clues aren't necessarily limited by sampling rate alone. It is the combination of sampling rate and bit depth that give 44.1/16 its ability to have sub-nanosecond arrival time deltas and tiny fractional degree phase relationships. Both of which are way beyond human ability to discern. I think most studies conclude the smallest human detectable arrival time deltas is in the order of 5us. Huge by what CD audio can do.

 

[FauxHall]

To restate my point, the biology experiment on which engineers based RBCD design parameters (20 kHz max human hearing) is the weak point in the CDs. The engineering was sound but the biological input was the weak link.

"Both of which are way beyond human ability to discern."

To that I say "Ha!"

I find that hi-res files played through speakers with super-tweeters have much additional musical content. I think Sony is on to something with their Hi-Res gear and speaker line with super tweeters.

Subjective, I grant, but it works in delivering superior sound for this consumer. Engineering is ultimately about what WORKS, not about current theories. It should make one question the biologists. Don't ever NOT question a scientist's pronouncement.

From another field, geologists told us that the tsunamis off Fukushima only got so big - until they came in bigger. We engineers HAD to have some figure to do our design work but the scientists' input was inadequate.

 

[House de Kris]

OK, thanks for clarifying FauxHall. For some reason, when you brought up "phases and arrival time deltas," I thought you were complaining about them. Now I see you are strictly complaining about the bandwidth limitation. Not sure why you threw in the red herring of phase and arrival time deltas, but I bit. Sorry about that.