Audio Research Preamps, what are your experiences?

Sound great, but as with any ARC piece hard and expensive to maintain. You'll have to buy special hand selected tubes and components from only ARC if you want to maintain the sound when issues arise.

as stated by E-stat, total nonsense. To the Op, congrats on the SP9 mkIII, superb unit, i had the mkII, modded by Steve Huntley, still going strong in my sons system out in Colorado.

I'm currently using a LS-28, happy as a clam ..........
 
ARC owners love their products, they do have fantastic sound. All I can base my thought about the products was from what. came into our shop that the ARC dealer couldn't repair and the owners didn't want to return the units to the factory for repair. The amps were really a pain and as the factory didn't want to help even after their dealer went under we stopped accepting the units. Is that any way to support owners.
 
The amps were really a pain and as the factory didn't want to help...
Didn't want to help? Sorry, but that story bears no resemblance to what I've experienced over a span of nearly four decades. Especially since I've required their assistance only twice since 1981.

If and when there's a genuine problem, send it back to the factory where they maintain a service facility that supports everything they've ever produced - except for some unobtainium CD transports that are no longer produced.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/analogplanet-visits-audio-research-corporation

Would you have your McIntosh gear serviced by a local yocal? Having worked in the industry as have you, why wouldn't you want to consult the factory? I've actually toured the Binghamton facility and if I were a Mc owner, I would want them to perform any service if needed. I can handle tube replacements by myself.

The power switch on one of my VTL power amps recently failed - it wouldn't turn off - so I emailed Bea Lamm directly at VTL. She instantly replied and is sending me a replacement switch.
 
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Purchased a LS15 from a local AK member at a great price and so far it sounds fantastic, and that's with all 4 6DJ8 tubes being JJ! Have some NOS Tungsram 6299 tubes ready to roll and other tubes to play with. Very high build quality as well. Very happy to be part of the Audio Research club.

BillWojo
 
I have a Reference 3 here for the moment. It’s a luscious piece of high performance tube engineering. It looks the part, is built extremely well, and stands as tall today as it did the day it was made. In fact, it’s one of the most favored in the field, from the things I’ve read.
They’re also really reliable and only use two tube types, (6 in total) easily gotten from A.R.C. themselves.
Oh it doesn’t sound ‘tubey’ either, it’s honest to the signal and does what it’s supposed to, according to the edicts and strictures of the high end.
 
I have a Reference 3 here for the moment. It’s a luscious piece of high performance tube engineering. It looks the part, is built extremely well, and stands as tall today as it did the day it was made. In fact, it’s one of the most favored in the field, from the things I’ve read.
They’re also really reliable and only use two tube types, (6 in total) easily gotten from A.R.C. themselves.
Oh it doesn’t sound ‘tubey’ either, it’s honest to the signal and does what it’s supposed to, according to the edicts and strictures of the high end.

How does the bass sound with your Ref 3? The reason I ask is I recently switched from a vintage Akai AA - 1200 receiver to a preowned Ref 3 and a new MC 275 VI and my bass is feeble compared to what it used to be. I bought a pair of XLR interconnects locally from a fellow who writes reviews and he told me that the Ref 3 was known for muddy bass. I cannot find that confirmed anywhere online. He was auditioning new ARC mono blocks at the time and says he is a big ARC fan but the Ref 5 was a huge improvement over the Ref 3 in the bass department. I am planning on adding a good sub woofer to the system but a decent one will probably be two grand. I read upgrading the tubes in the MC 275 will give me marginably better bass. I just miss the slam and the sound of a decaying bass note :(
 
I have no issue with the bottom end and haven’t read anything of the sort. Are the tubes still in good shape?
If anything, I noticed very tuneful and abundant bottom end with the unit in place, so I really cannot confirm that. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Were you in the habit of using tone controls when the Akai was in the system?
 
I have no issue with the bottom end and haven’t read anything of the sort. Are the tubes still in good shape?
If anything, I noticed very tuneful and abundant bottom end with the unit in place, so I really cannot confirm that. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Were you in the habit of using tone controls when the Akai was in the system?

Yes the tubes are in excellent condition. They have about 3000 hours on them and are an upgrade from the originals. The previous owner had the unit thoroughly gone through by a qualified tech. I have run the Akai flat since I bought it. That is why I was not concerned that the Ref 3 did not have any tone controls. The system seems to be sounding better and better everyday. There is less than 100 hours on the MC 275 tubes so perhaps they need some break in time. On a positive note I am struck by how fantastic sounding the midrange and highs are now. The Akai doesn’t come close in that area. Like I said earlier, I think a good quality sub will be a viable solution. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
 
There is less than 100 hours on the MC 275 tubes so perhaps they need some break in time

It should improve some. My 275-vi took a few weeks to come together. I've had 3 versions of the 275 and this one is a notch better, especially in the bass.

What speakers are you using and have you tried different taps on the 275?
 
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It should improve some. My 275-vi took a few weeks to come together. I've had 3 versions of the 275 and this one is noticeable better, especially in the bass.

What speakers are you using and have you tried different taps on the 275?


My speakers are Dali 4b’s. They don’t provide deep bass but the bass they do provide is very good. Haven’t tried different taps. Are you running stock tubes on your MC 275?
 
Yes the tubes are in excellent condition. They have about 3000 hours on them and are an upgrade from the originals. The previous owner had the unit thoroughly gone through by a qualified tech. I have run the Akai flat since I bought it. That is why I was not concerned that the Ref 3 did not have any tone controls. The system seems to be sounding better and better everyday. There is less than 100 hours on the MC 275 tubes so perhaps they need some break in time. On a positive note I am struck by how fantastic sounding the midrange and highs are now. The Akai doesn’t come close in that area. Like I said earlier, I think a good quality sub will be a viable solution. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
The only maybe could be an issue is the non A.R.C.tubes, and the 3000 hours on them. A.R.C. definitely knows their product (obviously), so they know well how to select and test the tubes they sell. I’m a believer in factory sourced parts for their gear.
Also, check the 6550 power supply tube at startup. Mine developed a white spark issue, so I replaced it.
 
The only maybe could be an issue is the non A.R.C.tubes, and the 3000 hours on them. A.R.C. definitely knows their product (obviously), so they know well how to select and test the tubes they sell. I’m a believer in factory sourced parts for their gear.
Also, check the 6550 power supply tube at startup. Mine developed a white spark issue, so I replaced it.


TBH I’m not sure what tubes are in it ATM. I do know the originals have 500 hours on them and they were included. The fellow I purchased it from is a true audiophile judging from his amazing sound room and audio components. I guess I should open it up and take inventory. It also came with a $500.00 upgraded power cable. He knocked off $500.00 because he didn’t have to ship. He just threw it all in without my asking. Totally classy guy. We had a chat, heard some tunes and he insisted on sending me home with a good book.
 
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TBH I’m not sure what tubes are in it ATM. I do know the originals have 500 hours on them and they were included. The fellow I purchased it from is a true audiophile judging from his amazing sound room and audio components. I guess I should open it up and take inventory. It also came with a $500.00 upgraded power cable. He also knocked off $500.00 because he didn’t have to ship. He just threw it all in without my asking. Totally classy guy. We had a good chat and he insisted on sending me home with a good book.
Oh nice. Try the original tubes if you haven’t already.
 
Are you running stock tubes on your MC 275?

I have several quads of KT88's. While the 275 was breaking in I preferred Gold Lions and Winged C's to the stock ones (JJ). After a month, the stock ones are acceptable and I rotate them in once in awhile. The small tubes in front are still the stock ones and am happy with them. I will be getting a set of Telefunkens in the near future, they did wonders for my C22iii.

What taps have you been using? Try the 4 ohm if you haven't, you won't hurt anything.

I'm very impressed with this newest version of the 275, especially in the bass. Give your amp some more time. Sometimes more bass is not as good as better bass. I learned that long ago when I went from a cheap subwoofer to a nice one. At first I thought the new one had less bass but the more I listened, the better/more musical it sounded. The cheap one just had a big bump.

Re the Ref 3...it could be that the tubes are getting a little weak, even after 'only' 3000 hrs. The company has been known to run their preamp tubes pretty hard. Might be the case with yours. Good luck. I have no reason to think that a Ref 3/MC275 combo would not produce some spectacular music ...if they meet specs.
 
Good morning,

My speakers are 4ohm and that is what I have been using. I'll take Ds2000's advice and try the original tubes this weekend. The tech who checked out the pre said the tubes that are in it are at 90% whatever that means. I don't know if I'll get better bass with this new set up. The bass from the SS system was tight and fast and quite impressive even though it did not go deep. If the original tubes do not sound better then I will purchase the best replacements I can. Thanks very much for your input!
 
I own Audio Research's entry level LS7 along with the VT60 amp. What a musical combination! I paired them with my Sonus Faber Electa's. The pre has served me well for over 20 yrs. Not one single issue with either. Not using these units at this time but can't seem to part with them! I don't have any experience with any other Audio Research products but I wholeheartedly recommend the brand and the LS7!
 
love my ARC LS-7. have multiple sets of 6922/6DJ8 tubes for this hybrid pre, currently running late 60's Amperex A-frame orange globes. have tried old and new versions of EH and JJ (and incomplete set of original Sovteks); high-mileage and unmatched tubes have more background hiss/noise, but newer is not necessarily better sounding. older is also not necessarily better sounding. not willing to keep spending money on sets of 4 matched tubes (really two sets of matched pairs), but would really like to try some 60's german tubes if they weren't so expensive compared to pre-amp value.
 
Owned and still use an sp8. Bought it new. Strictly vinyl setup and I like dynamic music. That fact alone limits what items to buy for your system.

One thing not yet mentioned is how well the Audio Research preamps worked with other amplifier brands. Back then if you wanted a Krell KSA amp, you did not get a krell pre-amp, you got an Audio Research. Not too many other pre-amps that did that although I do recall lots of folks liking the CJ tube preamps with various brands of amplifiers. But what it boils down to is how rare that really was---nobody was buying a Levinson preamp and running a Threshold amp on it. Or a Rowland pre-amp with a Spectral amp.

As for mine, 2 failures in > 35 years. Re-tubed it with vintage Mullards about 3 years ago. That cost approached what I bought the preamp for. And about double the tube cost of the previous tube swap.

I drove high output cartridges direct for a few decades before getting a ph 3 pre preamp. So I use that with the sp8 for quite some time. Always wanted an sp 11 and came close a few times to trading in on the 10 or the 11. I was not pleased with the tube choice in the 10 and we are talking money to replace tubes, even back then.

I have also had it altered so I can add a shunyata power cord. Now I know it doesn't matter anywhere near the same as it does with power amps. but when I took it in for a periodic checkover, nothing was wrong---I don't know about you guys, but I don't like just dropping something off and getting a good housekeeping seal of approval and only charge me $80. I like them to make a profit so they stay in business--I consider myself a good customer. So they can make a little on the deal, I have him make the provision for the power cord. It made a very minimal difference though.

As for Audio Research reliability, I really like it. Trouble is when a tube goes it brings down some parts with it. But I have owned 4 power amps of theirs for a total of >75 years collectively. Count the failures on one hand and that is tough running old tube units. I bought my son a highly modified ls1 for his digital system. He still uses it and has a bi-amped Levinson setup for infinity QLS. So that would be another 6 years of faithful service without repairs if you include the preamp I bought him.

So to me anyway, the sound is there. The compatibility with other amplifier brands is there. And the reliability is there. So is the resale value. Go back and look at other preamps and see how many fit that criteria. And fit it for multiple decades. Good luck with that.
 
Now that I have had the LS15 for a few weeks and changed some tubes around I must say it is by far the best preamp I have ever heard. I have never been able to hear so deep into the music, the details that emerge from familiar music is simply amazing.
I replaced the two gain stage tubes with Amperex 6922 with closely matched sections and the cathode followers are Tungsram 6922. It's been a long time since a new to me piece of gear has brought me this kind of excitement.

BillWojo
 
Well changing tubes will be easily heard on those Carvers. Little details become big. That is another important consideration of course---the associated equipment to hear what that pre-amp is doing.

Long ago--like say 1981, an audio salesman & buddy, made a very interesting observation that holds true. Regarding high end stereo, consider it a train. Too many locomotives is not good. Too many cabooses is not good. And you need similar quality items throughout your stereo system to work well and appreciate it. He compared to the length of a train---shorter the train the better. You do not want one of those trains hauling boxcars that is like a mile long. And different quality gear in the chain does exactly that. So no great amp/great preamp/mediocre tonearm and cartridge setup. That effects the length of the train you have.

I always heeded that advice and thought it was a very good metaphor.
 
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