Best placement and treatments for gear in new listening space

jamiecantar

Well-Known Member
Hi guys wondering if you may spare some of your experienced knowledge and help a newbie with getting the best sound from his gear. I recently finished my space and am placing my gear into it. I'm finding though that since I moved it from a smaller room half the size that everything sounds different - thin and more subtle. I took some actual measurments and ive attached a rough layout of the space.

thx
 

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An actual photo of how you have set up your system would be of help. Placing any objects between your speakers will negatively affect the sound staging and imaging. The other objects in the room will affect the sound, such as mirrors, chairs, pictures, carpeting, ect.. Try to get a good balance between hard and soft materials. So many things will affect the sound. Its really tough to say what to do without seeing the actual room with the system in it.

You say your a newbie. A photo of your setup could reveal some basic setup mistakes you may be making but are not aware of. Also, the type of speakers your running (stand mounted, floor standing) will determine what advice you will be given on how to get the best sound out of your system.
 
Really? right now I have boxes and big clunky things which I am waiting on moving out of the space that is why I supplied a floor plan. Taking real pictures would show a mess.

These are the pieces I own which I would like to correctly place in the space.

McIntosh MA-5100 pre/amp
McIntosh MR-77 tuner
Ariston Audio RDlls turntable
JBL 4311 wx-a speakers = 14.25" w x 11.75" d

sideboard credenza = 53" w x 17" d

i've supplied a pic
 

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So the room will (for the most part) be free of additional furnishings? You have freedom to place the listening position/speakers/credenza wherever you please?
 
Hey Micheal,

if you see the attached layouts. I am also thinking of making the other half of the room a tv 5.1 set up for movies with screen and projector. Any advice would really help.
 

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i found some great examples. They are acoustic treatments of some sort. they look portable and decorative at the same time. Just an idea. Its really smart that they put the speakers on small hardwood platforms. I really like this or something cool like this. even artwork printed on acoustic fabric would be cool.

cheers
 

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First, let me just say....Gorgeous!

My view on all this is that to really live in my home, the "absolutely no compromises" setup approach doesn't work for me, doesn't work for my family.

If we're going to be really honest, it just doesn't work for anybody approaching quasi-normal in nature, which most of us don't need to worry about.

That said, plan 1 & plan 3 look like excellent possibilities. If it were me, I would go with Plan 3 (a little more distance from the speakers), but move the speakers to something more to the sides, as shown in Plan 1, though you may want to pull them out from the walls more.

Add some treatment at the first reflection points & you'll probably have something very good going on....
 
Thanks, being a designer helps, and it's only the 2 of us. Although I'm no sound engineer. I kinda like option 3. - It has 3 reflective walls to work with, both sides of the room share the fireplace. Although will I be too close to the tv on the other end? The sectional length is 82" The screen size is 60" maybe. Gotta make the wife happy too.

We get some cold Canadian winters. Imagine cosying up to a warm fire, a single malt and some jazz on the system. I CAN'T WAIT :yes:
 
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You can always sort of split the difference in the distances between 1 & 3.

Like I said - it's all about sensible compromises.:thmbsp:
 
First, let me just say....Gorgeous!

My view on all this is that to really live in my home, the "absolutely no compromises" setup approach doesn't work for me, doesn't work for my family.

If we're going to be really honest, it just doesn't work for anybody approaching quasi-normal in nature, which most of us don't need to worry about.

That said, plan 1 & plan 3 look like excellent possibilities. If it were me, I would go with Plan 3 (a little more distance from the speakers), but move the speakers to something more to the sides, as shown in Plan 1, though you may want to pull them out from the walls more.

Add some treatment at the first reflection points & you'll probably have something very good going on....

Agreed...an aggressive treatment scenario is difficult, if not impossible, to integrate into a typical living environment. Dedicated listening spaces are a whole different set of circumstances. I'm fortunate to have a (quasi) dedicated listening space and I exploit it to the fullest. I also have a living area that has a modest 2-channel home theater rig and it has absolutely no treatments with the exception of typical furnishings (and fidelity suffers). I've pondered the idea of implementing a few treatments there and know I could pull it off tastefully and without a great deal of effort.....but I have many, many irons in the fire as it is and, well, there's always the dedicated space for when it's time to get down to business.

Fortunately, an effective treatment scenario does not have to be invasive, intrusive, or obnoxious. Some are of the opinion that acoustic treatments are all of these things by default. I suppose they're entitled to their opinions, but treatments can be made fairly inert from a visual standpoint or actually made to become a functioning element in the room decor scheme. Acoustically transparent fabrics such as burlap and muslin offer different textures and a variety or colors to work with. Colors that approximate or match the wall color can make a panel practically disappear in the room, or a color choice that picks up an accent color from the existing decor can be selected to create a desired mood or effect. The bottom line is a fundamental treatment scenario does not have to be viewed upon as a compromise to room decor.

So what is a fundamental treatment scenario? First, early reflections should be addressed. The term has been used in this thread already and for good reason as it's one of the primary culprits of compromised fidelity in small to medium sized rooms. Time for some homework, so have a look at this and follow the links in the thread as well....

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=446798

Oh, and the pictures you provided of the treated listening space....those devices are called diffusers. Great tools, but they really should be used in conjunction with absorption panels. So there you have two different treatment concepts.....absorption and diffusion. Absorption removes troublesome sonic energy (sound) from the room. Diffusion returns sonic energy into to the room in a more constructive fashion than random reflections off of a flat, hard surface which can be destructive to fidelity. In most all cases it's best to start with absorption devices and eliminate the early reflections then introduce diffusion devices to return some of that sonic energy that's been removed from the room by the absorbers.
Also, something to keep in mind is true, effective diffusers are not just random geometric shapes fixed to a board....they are mathematically calculated designs that have to be built to specific dimensions to work properly. The random (or sometimes even deliberately configured and patterned) geometric shapes on some "diffusers" merely scatter sonic energy. This is better than reflections from a flat, hard surface but it is not true diffusion and can introduce rogue acoustic anomalies that can actually hurt fidelity. Stepped diffusers are easy to build and are legitimate, mathematically calculated diffusers. If someone wants to introduce diffusion into their room and is up for a little DIY project of moderate difficulty it's what I recommend. An example of them can be seen here where I use them on the front wall of my listening space (the devices that comprise the center third of the entire diffuser array....the outer third segments are well-type QRD diffusers and are a bitch to build and expensive to purchase).

u4uhahev.jpg


But first things first, establish a starting point by deciding on how you're going to configure the room. I like #3 as well as this gives you the opportunity to get more than six feet between you and those speakers (which is a minimum appropriate speaker to listener distance for a speaker the size of you JBLs).

- Michael
 
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Micheal, beautiful ! Nice set up I love those Altec's.

Thank you for the pointers and advice. :yes: I can see from your photo that you have used some treatments in the corners, back of wall and probably at the first reflection point on the side walls. You have carpet on the floors which probably soaks up a lot of sound? I will have engineered hardwood, so maybe I need a carpet in front? Don't think I require many items when I am ready I will first try the side walls first reflection point.

Great set up and very knowledgeable AK member :music:

- from now on I will call you "AK guru" :D
 
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Thanks for the generous compliments. I actually have several absorption panels around the room (lets see, seven on the front wall, three on each side wall, three on the rear wall and two on the ceiling) and floor to ceiling bass traps in four of the five corners. It would be totally over the top in a living environment but this is my SLABB (Sonic Laboratory of Aural Bliss and Blunder) so all is fair game there.

Yes on the rug no matter what you decide to do. You have to get floor reflections under control as chances are you won't put any treatments on the ceiling and having two parallel, hard, flat surfaces facing one another with nothing to quell reflections off of and between them is a very bad thing. The bigger and thicker the better as far as that rug goes.

If you follow proposed layout #3 I suggest you start with an absorption panel at each side wall first reflection point. Next I would suggest absorption panels on the front wall flanking the artwork. These will offer sonic benefits regardless of how you decide to set up, actually (#2 would have to be approached a bit differently, but fundamentally the same concepts would apply). Let's see what that gets you and consider additional treatments from there if you seek additional improvements in SQ....in low frequency response, for instance.
 
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Sounds good,

Would you suggest placing the speaker forward as I've done in layout 3 and then toed in 20 degrees as you have? How far from the side walls, or is it something I have to play with when I actually have them in there...I think I answered my own questions. :D

much appreciated :D
 
Really? right now I have boxes and big clunky things which I am waiting on moving out of the space that is why I supplied a floor plan. Taking real pictures would show a mess.

These are the pieces I own which I would like to correctly place in the space.

McIntosh MA-5100 pre/amp
McIntosh MR-77 tuner
Ariston Audio RDlls turntable
JBL 4311 wx-a speakers = 14.25" w x 11.75" d

sideboard credenza = 53" w x 17" d

i've supplied a pic

What a room: Sound wise for me AND I bet it would be Wife Approved :banana:
 
There is one issue you may have to deal with based on your proposed set up. Dead center in the room is usually a typical location for a standing wave....which means some or all bass content will sound weak there. So be prepared for that. :scratch2:
 
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