I'm glad you chimed in @bar72. Since I started this thread almost a month ago I've done more research and gained tons of knowledge from the fine members here. I still have loads to learn and sometimes feel my brain is about to explode, but after reading up on everything I had pretty much decided to go searching for a used Technics SL 1200. This is based on learning that for a turntable to perform at it's peak sonically they really, only need a steady/constant revolution, a horizontal platter, and a stable tracking tonearm. Of course, the cartridge is more than half the battle when it comes to sound.

The challenge is finding an SL 1200 that's not beat to death. There's about 3 or 4 of them in my local area going between $350-$450, but at least cosmetically they look like they've been heavily used. I have found someone on AK via Bartertown who is willing to sell me an unused/still packaged in OG box Technics SL 1200 MK II for around $800 (apparently quite a rare find). This is way over my budget and I'd still need to get a cart, but I am considering it because it seems this is a gem of a turntable. I'm guessing I would probably never need another one for the rest of my life. I'm in communication about this table and will probably seal the deal within the next couple days. I am, however open to any thoughts on this along with cart suggestions as this is a huge purchase for me.

Don't do the SL-1200. This forum is a great resource for vintage table info but the downside to that is you get some pretty rigid points of view (welcome to the internet). One of these is the SL-1200 club that will swear up and down it is a must-get table. Never mind that there are now more new turntables available at budget prices than there have been in decades. Tables like the U-Turn Orbit which has a great rep and great customer service and whose internet direct model gets you a good table at half the price it would if sold retail.

But back the 1200. Here's the thing: IMO it's over-rated. And by over-rated I mean it kind of stinks. If you notice the 1200 recs never mention that there are also many, many Technics direct drives that are just as good if not better. Oh, but it's built like a tank? You don't need a tank. You need a turntable. I have owned and modded multiple SL-1200s. I have also owned/repaired other Technics direct drives - the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, etc. The 1200 is the *worst* sounding of the bunch. I drank the kool-aid. It was my first table when I got into the hobby ten years ago. But I didn't like it. So I told myself it's a little beat up, just needs some cleaning and some mods and... next thing I knew I had sunk $$$ into that table. Result? Meh. Even a flimsy Philips 312 was more involving than the 1200. Then I heard the suspended Technics like the SL-1600. Those are GREAT sounding tables *and* are well built blah blah blah for all the Technics fan-boys.

I went through a period of vintage table fixing and listening where I heard dozens of tables over a period of a year or so. How many turntable owners can say that? Not many. I owned/sold 2 to 3 1200s in that time period. The SL-1200 disappointed me everytime. And I say that as a fan of direct drives, belt drives, and the (one) idler drives I've heard. I have no tribe. The 1200 is just an example where a particular mindset locks onto a product because of what it represents not because of how it sounds. And I'm not alone in my opinion.

If you *must* have a Technics find one of the other models, preferably a suspended.
 
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Don't do the SL-1200. This forum is a great resource for vintage table info but the downside to that is you get some pretty rigid points of view (welcome to the internet). One of these is the SL-1200 club that will swear up and down it is a must-get table. Never mind that there are now more new turntables available at budget prices than there have been in decades. Tables like the U-Turn Orbit which has a great rep and great customer service and whose internet direct model gets you a good table at half the price it would if sold retail.

But back the 1200. Here's the thing: IMO it's over-rated. And by over-rated I mean it kind of stinks. If you notice the 1200 recs never mention that there are also many, many Technics direct drives that are just as good if not better. Oh, but it's built like a tank? You don't need a tank. You need a turntable. I have owned and modded multiple SL-1200s. I have also owned/repaired other Technics direct drives - the 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, etc. The 1200 is the *worst* sounding of the bunch. I drank the kool-aid. It was my first table when I got into the hobby ten years ago. But I didn't like it. So I told myself it's a little beat up, just needs some cleaning and some mods and... next thing I knew I had sunk $$$ into that table. Result? Meh. Even a flimsy Philips 312 was more involving than the 1200. Then I heard the suspended Technics like the SL-1600. Those are GREAT sounding tables *and* are well built blah blah blah for all the Technics fan-boys.

I went through a period of vintage table fixing and listening where I heard dozens of tables over a period of a year or so. How many turntable owners can say that? Not many. I owned/sold 2 to 3 1200s in that time period. The SL-1200 disappointed me everytime. And I say that as a fan of direct drives, belt drives, and the (one) idler drives I've heard. I have no tribe. The 1200 is just an example where a particular mindset locks onto a product because of what it represents not because of how it sounds. And I'm not alone in my opinion.

If you *must* have a Technics find one of the other models, preferably a suspended.

Thanks for your input @wushuliu. I'm really glad you chimed in as well. I was moments away from pulling the trigger on an SL 1200, but I am open to all and any other recommendations. Since you have had so much experience listening to and modifying different tables can I ask you what your recommendation would be for a turntable and cartridge in the $500 to $800 range? Thanks in advance!
 
Thanks for your input @wushuliu. I'm really glad you chimed in as well. I was moments away from pulling the trigger on an SL 1200, but I am open to all and any other recommendations. Since you have had so much experience listening to and modifying different tables can I ask you what your recommendation would be for a turntable and cartridge in the $500 to $800 range? Thanks in advance!

If you are open to vintage then go for reputable models that are in the best condition available to you. Budget-wise I was impressed by the Pioneer 51X series tables and those aren't too hard to find - 514, 516, 518 etc. Sony direct drives are also excellent like the PS-X series (X5, X7, X45, X70, etc) or JVC QL-X series on and on... and like I said there is a *wide* range of Technics tables that are excellent. SL-1300, 1400, 1500, 1600 etc. Excellent tables. Many more. IOW, let us know what tables look in great condition in your area and ask for feedback. That's usually the best way. Or even check Barter Town here at the site.

New tables I have less experience in but I've been impressed with the customer service feedback on U-Turn tables and their hardwood acrylic platter table is only $459 straight to your door and Orbit Plus $260 since they are an internet direct turntable company. With retail markup that would be ~$500~$900. Are they as good as retail stuff in that price range? Those kinds of comparisons are few and far between. If you have Amazon Prime I would say now would be a good time to order a few tables and compare and then return the one(s) you don't like. IIRC they extend all returns starting Thanksgiving to the end of January instead of typical 30 days. Just something to think about.
 
I still say you should buy new. Open a box, plug in, listen. Keep looking at the big online retailers, like daily. Their clearance and specials get updated often.
Here's an entry level VPI with a Grado mounted for under $700 delivered....

https://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1VPCLIFF
Thanks @frankbooth . The table you linked looks really nice, but I'm surprised that it doesn't have adjustable VTA at its original price point. I can get the Music Hall MMf 2.3 from Amazon on sale right now for $419. I feel like I may need to pull the trigger. Any reason why I shouldn't?
 
If you are open to vintage then go for reputable models that are in the best condition available to you. Budget-wise I was impressed by the Pioneer 51X series tables and those aren't too hard to find - 514, 516, 518 etc. Sony direct drives are also excellent like the PS-X series (X5, X7, X45, X70, etc) or JVC QL-X series on and on... and like I said there is a *wide* range of Technics tables that are excellent. SL-1300, 1400, 1500, 1600 etc. Excellent tables. Many more. IOW, let us know what tables look in great condition in your area and ask for feedback. That's usually the best way. Or even check Barter Town here at the site.

New tables I have less experience in but I've been impressed with the customer service feedback on U-Turn tables and their hardwood acrylic platter table is only $459 straight to your door and Orbit Plus $260 since they are an internet direct turntable company. With retail markup that would be ~$500~$900. Are they as good as retail stuff in that price range? Those kinds of comparisons are few and far between. If you have Amazon Prime I would say now would be a good time to order a few tables and compare and then return the one(s) you don't like. IIRC they extend all returns starting Thanksgiving to the end of January instead of typical 30 days. Just something to think about.

I am open to vintage, but I'm also ready to own a table that I know, without a doubt, won't give me any troubles. I was all set to buy new because of this, but then the reviews/fans of the Technics sl1200 popped up and it sounded like a table that would last me a lifetime. Now I'm back to looking at a new table. Ha! Running in circles here. I checked out the U-turn tables you recommended, but I'm concerned that there's no adjustable VTA. I'm currently having issues with sibilance on my Dual 1257. I've traced it back to the fact that I can't adjust the VTA.

So, there's a Music Hall MMF 2.3 for sale on Amazon right now for $419. Thinking about pulling the trigger. Thoughts?
 
Bluenote79 said:
"Since I started this thread almost a month ago I've done more research and gained tons of knowledge from the fine members here. I still have loads to learn and sometimes feel my brain is about to explode, but after reading up on everything I had pretty much decided to go searching for a used Technics SL 1200. This is based on learning that for a turntable to perform at it's peak sonically they really, only need a steady/constant revolution, a horizontal platter, and a stable tracking tonearm. Of course, the cartridge is more than half the battle when it comes to sound.

The challenge is finding an SL 1200 that's not beat to death. There's about 3 or 4 of them in my local area going between $350-$450, but at least cosmetically they look like they've been heavily used. I have found someone on AK via Bartertown who is willing to sell me an unused/still packaged in OG box Technics SL 1200 MK II for around $800 (apparently quite a rare find). This is way over my budget and I'd still need to get a cart, but I am considering it because it seems this is a gem of a turntable. I'm guessing I would probably never need another one for the rest of my life. I'm in communication about this table and will probably seal the deal within the next couple days. I am, however open to any thoughts on this along with cart suggestions as this is a huge purchase for me."

Great choice! I suggest you talk to Kevin from KAB USA:
https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/wirewin.htm
I have emailed him before, but I have heard you can call him directly and he is very helpful. Ask him about the NIB table for $800 and what to look out for. Find out how old the table is if you can. I've had mine since it was new in 1995. A few years ago I had to replace the tonearm wires and re-lubricate the VTA adjustment ring. I did both myself with Kevin's instructions. You may need to do the same.
 
Just a FYI: you can adjust VTA on a table without an adjustment feature. There are different mat thicknesses you can use to change the angle and shimming the cartridge is another option.
 
Thanks @frankbooth . The table you linked looks really nice, but I'm surprised that it doesn't have adjustable VTA at its original price point. I can get the Music Hall MMf 2.3 from Amazon on sale right now for $419. I feel like I may need to pull the trigger. Any reason why I shouldn't?

I say go for it, especially since you don't have to return until end of January. Amazon sells the Orbit too. Get both and compare, keep the one you like.
 
Hey Blue!

Have you looked again recently at what is available locally on Craigslist in our area? Don't know any of the sellers but there are several good turntables available within your budget including a Thorens with a Shure cartridge.
 
Hey Blue!

Have you looked again recently at what is available locally on Craigslist in our area? Don't know any of the sellers but there are several good turntables available within your budget including a Thorens with a Shure cartridge.
Hey Wolverine! Nice to see you on here. haha. Such a small world. I have been keeping an eye out. There's actually a Thorens TD 160 and a TD 165 currently listed. Can't tell if the 165 comes with a cartridge or not. People have given really good reviews for these Thorens tables, but I've never even see one in person. What are your thoughts? And if you were going to buy locally what would you pick of the lot out there? Otherwise, I've become a subscriber here so I also have access to BarterTown. Open to any suggestions there as well.
 
Hey Wolverine! Nice to see you on here. haha. Such a small world. I have been keeping an eye out. There's actually a Thorens TD 160 and a TD 165 currently listed. Can't tell if the 165 comes with a cartridge or not. People have given really good reviews for these Thorens tables, but I've never even see one in person. What are your thoughts? And if you were going to buy locally what would you pick of the lot out there? Otherwise, I've become a subscriber here so I also have access to BarterTown. Open to any suggestions there as well.

I only know Thorens by reputation so I'm no help there. I do have a Technics D-3 which is one step up from the D-2 that is listed for much much less than the Thorens obviously. It is a good entry level turntable and you use the rest of your budget to upgrade something else if you think that is what is needed.
 
I purchased a Music Hall mmf 9 when it first came out, I was looking for the best value for the money. I purchased it mail order, came with cart and already set up to play. Now there is the 9.1 and 9.3 I think. But I had a good experience with Audio Advisor, no problems and still happy with my purchase. I also have many vintage Thorens tables I am happy with keeping.
 
Well guys, I am now the proud owner of a Thorens TD 160 with a Shure M97xE cartridge. I have to say, I am very, very happy. I can already hear the difference over my Dual 1257 with Shure M94. I have learned more than I ever knew there was to learn about turntables over the last few weeks and I'm super thankful for all of the posts and explanations provided by all of you. I had actually already ordered a Music Hall mmf 2.3 that was on sale from Amazon. That was just a few days before I found this Thorens locally. So, now I'll get to compare tables per @wushuliu 's suggestion. Chances are I'll end up returning the Music Hall unless I absolutely love it.
 
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Here are a few photos of my Thorens. It's in really nice shape. The guy I bought it from was the original owner. He recently had it serviced and replaced the rca cables, belt, and general tune up. The cart is practically brand new with only a handful of listening hours. He also gave me the original cart he used, which was an Empire 2000 E/III.
 
When you compare tables, I recommend you put the same cartridge on each turntable. That way the comparison is more fair.
 
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