Best (worst?) of both worlds / HT and phono

[Toothpick]

Hey folks, first time posting here so if it's the wrong section apologies.

So currently all audio duties are being handled by a Panasonic all-in-one bluray/reciever/5.1 speaker package (HTiB I believe is the proper taxonomy), which is decidedly 'meh' in both features and sound quality and is probably hot garbage by most of y'alls standards It was a very thoughtful and well intentioned wedding gift from somebody that knows squat about AV stuff

Anyhow right now I have my turntable connected to it, but recently started itching to pick up a nice vintage receiver and speakers for it. On further reflection, I came to realize bringing more speakers into the house is untenable until we move sometime in the next year.

My next step down the CL/ebay rabbit hole was HT receivers, plenty of deals to be had but I'd rather not have to also find a new Bluray player. Furthermore, the Borg cube styling of most receivers is a no-go for now. Seperate, dedicated systems for the turntable and HT where that would be acceptable are in the future, but not now.

Now I've circled back to the HTIB route...I know, I know

What I -like- about our current system:
-5.1 surround
-receiver/bluray combo
-slim design and understated looks

Dislikes are:
-poor sound quality
-proprietary speaker connecters
-lack of seperate 1/8 aux input
-generally poor interface and functionality

So...I guess what I'm wondering is are there any of these 'HTiB' systems that come with the AK stamp of approval? Any diamonds in the rough out there I should be aware of? Another BIG caveat is my budget of little to none, but time and patience (and craigslist) are on my side here. I'd like to narrow the focus of my searches somewhat as there is a lot of junk to sift through on the 'list.

Apologies for the long-windedness and please let me know if this belongs in another section, any tips or suggestions are much appreciated!

ETA: I understand that the combo bluray/receiver units SUCK but I included that under 'likes' because in a perfect (ha!) world I'd rather not have to source seperate speakers, bluray player, and receiver at this point in time, certainly if the right 'package' from a single seller came across the radar at a good price I would consider that.

 

[isotopesope]

hello.

what TT do you have now? I presume it has it's own preamp built into it? or does the Panasonic HTiB have a phono stage?

where do you live? maybe we can help scour CL in your area for decent used setups?

it's gonna be hard to avoid the borg look for an AVR. haha i get where you're coming from though. i know nothing about these all-in-one sort of units or the HTiB setups, but replacing yours with another one is probably going to just rehash your dislikes list. also, as you're realizing, they can have lots of proprietary stuff that makes upgrades nearly impossible.

this is a conventional AV receiver and 5.1 speaker package for $199... it seems like it could work toward your needs?:
https://www.accessories4less.com/ma...l9HZvZ32oTaa8qhAO9KGsjNOF_1ZRILMaAkb3EALw_wcB

the AVR has a few HDMI inputs and is 4k compatible, which is wild for how inexpensive it is. it also has a few analog in's as well, so you could use a 1/8" jack to RCA Y cable for AUX use. it also has bluetooth capability. it's borgy, but not too terrible, eh? hahaha

you would need to source a bluray player, but perhaps you could find a CL deal on that.

 

[Toothpick]

Hi Isotopescope, thanks for the reply.

The TT is an older Pioneer, I believe it's a PL 400 based on a quick image search (at work atm) and I'm running it through a cheapo Pyle preamp into the VCR in.

I will say after doing some more research here and elsewhere my criteria has changed somewhat. First and foremost the AVR 'look' is less of an issue as my better half has indicated she is not so opposed to that as long as the old stuff is made to disappear, that alone has opened up a lot more options (and a lot more to wade through). That said I do prefer a cleaner look. Really dig the design of some of the h/k stuff I've seen and a Yamaha unit I came across (htr 5440) that was well reviewed had a such a busy and seemingly hodgepodge face that that alone was enough for me to pass.

Furthermore, I'm not married to the 5.1 configuration. 2.1 or even 2.0 would be just dandy. Also, I'm not hung up on the latest digital whizbang features, analog inputs are fine so older AVRs that lack HDMI and such are certainly on the table.

So, for now, my approach is to find an AVR I like, two main speakers, and keep an eye out for a nice vintage receiver for the TT and then run that in some sort of sequence with the AVR. Now the challenge is finding the right stuff! FWIW I'm located in the Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill area of NC.

 

[Toothpick]

Quick update...I think I'm going to pull the trigger on a Yamaha RX-V2090, $75 is the asking price though I may try and haggle a bit when I get there. My understanding is that these were pretty much top of the line in their day and at least functionally will fit the bill quite well for me. I'm not head over heels with the looks, but it does have enough of a retro vibe (the 90's are retro now...my god ) that it does have more of a cool factor over some newer models.

In reading a little about them I did come across a potential issue in running a bluray player through it, something with regards to the encoding and decoding of the signal, basically that the older AVR wouldn't understand what to do with the bluray audio...Or something. To my simple mind as long as the video device has analog outs it should be fine, right? Or is there more to it than that?

 

[Toothpick]

Another thought...Someone is selling a H/K AVR 630, same price as the Yamaha I mentioned in my last post. I really dig the look, and it's far more advanced, but am I right in thinking that what you are (or were, as the original purchaser) paying for with the h/k is digital bells and whistles whereas the Yamaha's value lies in it's higher quality physical components?

 

[StimpyWan]

The Yamaha RX-V2090 is a great sounding receiver. Very good amps in there. No issues with that. However, the 2090 also has no onboard Dolby Digital or DTS decoding. Nothing for any Blu-Ray audio format either. The 2090 is strictly a Pro Logic receiver.

BUT, the 2090 does have multichannel audio inputs. So, it can accept analog audio, form a disc player, capable of decoding the newer audio codecs. As such, you'd have to use it with something like an Oppo Blu-ray player, that has the multichannel output connections. Not many players do now. So, with a modern Blu-Ray player, with the correct outputs, you'd have a very nice HT setup, for not much money.

 

[StimpyWan]

Here's an earlier AK thread about the 2090. Some good info.

Yamaha RX-V2090 just beginning

 

[Toothpick]

Cool, thanks for the link.

Just to clarify, is it purely a matter of physical connections? The solution being to find a player with red and white RCA outs for audio?

Coffee is still kicking in

 

[StimpyWan]

Just to clarify, is it purely a matter of physical connections? The solution being to find a player with red and white RCA outs for audio?

Yea, the DVD or Blu-Ray player will have to have analog outputs for sound. Outputs for all channels. The Yamaha has inputs for the audio, that these would connect to. Here's a picture of an Oppo, with the needed RCA outs.

 

[StimpyWan]

One weird thing with the 2090, and my 990, the multichannel inputs were just for the mains, center, and surrounds (see the grey'd out area, in the lower left). There wasn't a sub input. I'm not sure why? But, I always used my speakers full range, so that wasn't an issue. Plus, if you need a sub, you can run speaker wires to the sub's high level inputs, and then back to the main speakers.

 

[Toothpick]

Excellent, very helpful, thanks!
At this point I think just the two main channels will be just fine.
Really, playing music is going to be this systems primary function. Or, rather, I'm more interested in it sounding good playing music than an immersive movie watching experience. But having the option for a little more -oomph- when I'm watching Ironman with the kids or something is a nice bonus. I'm not anticipating missing the multi-channel surround with the upgrade in sound quality and power this will afford.

 

[Toothpick]

Brought home the 2090, it is indeed a beast! The seller was actually the original owner, he bought it new when he was in high school after saving up for it, so I think it's safe to say it was more than -just- another peice of equipment for him He was currently using it as his shop stereo and his shop had quite an array of electrical diagnostic eqpt, oscilliscopes and all sorts of other stuff I don't even know the name of so I believe it comes from a good home. He's getting ready to move cross-country so that's why he was selling. Now to find speakers!

 

[StimpyWan]

Nice. Congratulations. I'm happy to hear that it must be in good shape too. Just be sure to find a Blu-Ray player with analog outs, and you'll be set. And if you're only doing 2 channels, stereo outputs on the players aren't hard to find, used or new.

As to speakers, I'm currently running AR58S speakers with my Yamaha RX-A3030 AVR, and they're awesome together. The 12" woofers in the AR's produce excellent bass. My NHT video speakers worked well too. ADS and EPI's are easy to drive, and are musical speakers as well.

 

[donprice]

He's getting ready to move cross-country so that's why he was selling. Now to find speakers!

Did you ask if if he needed to get rid of some speakers before the move?

The RX-V2090 is a beast. Enjoy

 

[Toothpick]

^^^ I did! Unfortunately all he had left was an old Klipsch center-channel. Very nice I'm sure but not what I needed, no biggie.

Thanks for the tips StimpyWan, for now I'm limited to bookshelf units. Floor units simply don't fit, long story short the woman we bought the house from had it built to her specifications and made some...interesting choices. Theres really only one possible configuration for this stuff and it doesn't afford the space for a larger floorstanding unit. I think I had mentioned before that we'll probably move within the year at which point I can expand a little, but bookshelves are the ticket for now.

 

[Toothpick]

Another quick update...I went ahead and ordered a pair of Yamaha NS-333 bookshelves from accesories4less, $160 shipped with a 1 year factory warranty I figure at the very worst I'll have a decent set of surrounds for later and this way I've got something to listen to right now so I can bide my time on some used speakers, if I even decide to go that route. The 333s may be all I need for now, and decent subs seem easy to come by at a fair price.

 

[StimpyWan]

The 333's are marketed as surround speakers. But, no reason they can't work as mains. Especially with a sub. Heck, they're bigger than my NHT Super Zero's, and they're fine with a sub. Enjoy.

 

[Toothpick]

Found a like new, in box Samsung bd c6500 bluray player, seems nice enough and it has full 7 channel analogue outs so even though I'm not doing surround atm it will be nice to have the option later on Now we're getting somewhere, speakers should arrive tomorrow.

 

[whoaru99]

One weird thing with the 2090, and my 990, the multichannel inputs were just for the mains, center, and surrounds (see the grey'd out area, in the lower left). There wasn't a sub input. I'm not sure why? But, I always used my speakers full range, so that wasn't an issue. Plus, if you need a sub, you can run speaker wires to the sub's high level inputs, and then back to the main speakers.

I think the reason the 2090 (didn't check the 990 but suspect the same) doesn't have LFE/sub input is that they are, as I recall, in the time of only Dolby Pro Logic decoding. There was no discrete LFE/subwoofer channel at the time to input.

 

[StimpyWan]

I think the reason the 2090 (didn't check the 990 but suspect the same) doesn't have LFE/sub input is that they are, as I recall, in the time of only Dolby Pro Logic decoding. There was no discrete LFE/subwoofer channel at the time to input.

Mostly, Yamaha themselves couldn't figure out how to use the 2090/990 inputs. When 1st released, these receivers were advertised as AC-3 (Dolby Digital) ready. Yamaha then released the DDP-1 AC-3 decoder, DAC, for use with the 2090/990. And guess what, the DDP-1 had multi-channel LCR, surround, and Sub outputs! A Sub output, with no where to connect it. Even reviewers of the 2 receivers, and the DDP-1 combo, were confused, as to why the receivers couldn't accommodate the Sub input. Just weird.