Birding scopes?

chicks

chicks

Lunatic Member
I live very near the Pacific Flyway, with its huge population of birds. Was out viewing yesterday. A couple of folks were kind enough to let us view through their spotting scopes. The brightness and clarity was amazing, especially though the Kowa (didn't ask what they paid), and nearly as good through a Vanguard, which its owner said was about $800.

Any avid birders here with suggestions on scopes to Consider? A camera adapter would be a plus.
 
If you're serious, go with the best. Swarovski, Leica or Zeiss.
Try before you buy, and you'll see the correlation between price, image quality and (most important) "ease on the eyes" -- there's minimal sense of strain or re-accommodation with the best optics.

Kowa's quite good but not in the same league as the above.

We're mostly a Swarovski household, although Mrs. H did switch this past year to the Zeiss Victory SF 10 x 42 binoculars for general purpose birding.
They are superb.

Another plus with the big boys; excellent warranties and customer service/support.

EDIT: Also, don't scrimp on your tripod. Get one that's light, sturdy and extremely well made. There are several good manufacturers. I'm still partial to Manfrotto tripods and heads -- but there are others as good and even better. I think Manfrotto gives a very good price/performance ratio.
IN this day and age, there's no reason not to go with carbon fiber instead of aluminum. The price differential's shrunk considerably, and tromping around in the field in zero-degree weather is a lot more pleasant carrying a carbon fiber tripod than an aluminum one. Aluminum is an excellent conductor of heat; even with insulated leggings on an aluminum tripod, they'll suck the warmth right through even extreme-weather gloves (at least in my experience)!
 
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I don't have any specific suggestions, but will recommend you get the very best that your budget will allow. I've spent more than 20 years looking through scopes for hours every day (I'm a land surveyor), and will say that eye strain from inferior optics is not something to ignore. If you've got the scratch, the three above are among the very best available but are priced accordingly, though IMO Leica is over priced. Docter Optic (bought out Carl Zeiss in Jena just after WWII) is also excellent, but I don't know if they manufacture spotting scopes; they do make rifle scopes and binocs. Last I knew, a step down from those and Kowa, but still quite good were both Pentax and Nikon, though I have not looked through their most recent offerings. My dad has a pair of Pentax 7x50 binocs that are superb. The last Bushnell and Leupolds I looked through I did not like at all. Maybe is was just those particular models, but it has biased me since.

Another general recommendation:
Get the largest diameter lens you're willing to carry. Spotting scopes tend to be of quite high magnification, and with small objective lenses this translates to a small field of view as well as making them quite dark in low-light situations. The third reason, that most don't consider, is spherical aberration. That is, the distortion in the image due to imperfections in the lenses. This generally shows up at the edges and is generally less objectionable with a larger lens. Chromatic Aberration is an issue as well, but larger diam. lenses are not the solution for that.

Mhardy is most definitely right about tripods. Trying to get a decent look through a 'scope on a set of unstable legs is unpleasant at best, impossible at worst. Though I'm very partial to the old Qwik-Set Jr. my grandfather had (and dad took with him when he walked out), it's really not the best choice for the woods since it is too prone to gunking up. Examine how the legs adjust when making your choice, and consider which will be more tolerant of the occasional mud puddle while being robust and lightweight at the same time. Anything that uses a threaded mechanism for locking a leg will be suspect in (or just after)foul weather; cam locks will be better.
 
I actually worked for Zeiss briefly, just after the Navy. Driving all over the Western US wasn't fun, do I quickly moved on, just before they were to send me to Germany for several weeks' training. Apparently I was the only job candidate who passed their test of vacuum tube knowledge, lol. Was for their electron microscopes.

I would really like to find a scope that can double as a camera lens. Otherwise, I'm looking at 2X $2500 or so for quality lenses. One of Nikon's scopes looks to be specifically designed for double duty, but I'm shooting M43. The IS built into the long Olympus and Pan Leica lenses makes hand held telephoto shots a reality, especially the Olympic lens that coordinates its IS with that of the body. Not practical as a scope, though.

I have a Manfrotto carbon fibre monopod, so do understand the advantages, and will definitely look at their tripods.

Never been one to spend money without hours of thorough research, so will be reading diligently. It does appear that the quality lens industry is limited to a very few companies who compete on measurable metrics. So very different than the "high end" audio industry, with so much outright fraud, lol.
 
Pretty straightforward to measure optical performance -- although there are qualitative aspects (for photography) of optics that aren't all that dissimilar to typical "golden ear" claptrap.

Yes, I'm lookin at you, bokeh! ;)
 
M 4/3 may make things a different matter. I don't have any idea what, if anything, is available for this format. You may have to consider some of the options afforded astronomy buffs, where photography is enthusiastically pursued. Unfortunately, many of these scopes are not overly suitable for use as spotting scopes, and good glass is still very expensive.

edit:
Something just popped into mind. I'll bet there is a stargazing club nearby, perhaps several, and you could go to their meetings/outings and get firsthand experience with quite a few different scopes, as well as be able to ask opinions of some very experienced and knowledgeable people.
 
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I don't know if they still do, but Swarovski sold adaptors for photography through their scopes. Very expensive, though.

Another option is a moderately fast Schmidt-Cassegrain scope or "mirror lens" -- not as easy to handle (e.g., focus) as a refactor in some respects, but compact and relatively inexpensive for a decent level of optical performance (relatively simple optics). I have a cheap one (Orion 500 mm f/5.6) that makes an OK spotting scope -- it is very light & portable, also very fast.

Speaking of fun bokeh :p that's always some fun with mirror lenses.


source: http://icouldbeahero.blogspot.com/2008/12/first-shots-with-slr.html

Good, long, fast telephoto lenses (akin to the performance of an 80 mm objective spotting scope of the Leica/Zeiss/Swarovski class) are, from my perspective, crazy expensive.
 
Too much? <G>

Z8_AfterMods.jpg


Where do you all stand on digital monitors? Be nice to be able to scan the horizon using one, then switch to the standard optics once you spot some interesting activity.
 
A little tough to hand hold ;)

Also, probably not all that fast -- seems to me that the Dobsonians are usually like f/8 or f/11.

Nice looking scope, though. 2" eyepiece? Crayford focuser?
 
mhardy6647 said:
I don't know if they still do, but Swarovski sold adaptors for photography through their scopes. Very expensive, though...

Good, long, fast telephoto lenses (akin to the performance of an 80 mm objective spotting scope of the Leica/Zeiss/Swarovski class) are, from my perspective, crazy expensive.
Click to expand...

I believe they still do. A very quick google search yielded these:

http://petapixel.com/2012/11/09/digiscoping-a-look-at-using-a-spotting-scope-as-a-telephoto-lens/

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/co...ap=y&c3api=1876,91438732682,&is=REG&A=details

$550; not inexpensive. And it does not mention M 4/3 format in the second, though it was in another I looked at. The first shows your assessment of camera lens costs to be on the money, but is quite interesting.
 
Not sure if this helps or hinders with respect to the OP... but my son got me a nice 70-300 mm f/4.5 - 5.6 VR ED Nikkor zoom for my DX-format Nikon DSLR -- that's the lens I mostly use for backyard nature photography. Not crazy fast, but fine for daylight photography -- small & light enough (with the VR) to hand hold when needed, too. I like it a lot.

300 mm on a DX-format sensor is equivalent to 450 mm on a full 35 mm frame.

DSC_2277 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Here's an immature goshawk that was looking to enjoy a snack of some mourning doves at our hawk feeder ;)


DSC_5457a by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

(this photo, of necessity, was taken through the screen on our porch)
 
Great posts, thanks! I've seen the Canon guys at the Crane sanctuary with their giant L-series telephotos; wouldn't want to walk too far with those beasts. The M43 equivalent is 1/3 the size and weight, and the synchronized IS/IBIS gives 6 stops of equivalent shutter compensation. Not like a birding scope that can be easily shared with companions, though.

MZuiko_300mm_f4_IS_PRO__vs_600mm_FF_EYREWALKER.jpg
 
chicks said:
Interesting. They're quite proud of it, lol.

http://www.swarovskioptik.com/natur.../tls-apo-atx-stx-micro-four-third-p5006346-B3
Click to expand...

Ouch! That's $100 more than in the link I ran across last night! But you can be assured it is MIGHTY fine glass if you go this route. Also, this is the manufacturer's price. Searching elsewhere could potentially yield a signifigantly different end cost. I'd now search the particular part at places like opticsplanet.com and others of the ilk.
 
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