CD Player or DAC Tough Decision Coming Up

[Art K.]

Good news! My LM CD player has been repaired and is on it's way from AZ,

 

[RGA]

Yeah, Richard it's $800 more dollars retail now.

Wow that is quite the jump (more than 50% - eesh). You sort of get why I like this as an owner though because as the new retail prices rise - I can sell it for what I originally paid. My first two AN products that I bought I sold for more than I paid. I could sell my OTO for more than I paid as well In 2003 it was around $1800 now it's $4000.

Unfortunately, it makes it tougher to buy in. For audio I am fortunate to be in Hong Kong where there are no import duties or taxes. Still the 0.1x was probably priced too low for too long. When the LM 502 CA is $1800US (albeit considerably less in HK) and made with cheap Chinese labour and the 0.1x which sounds better is built in Europe with real wages and benefits, it really should be sold at a higher price. I just wish it weren't because I'd like more people to be able to hear a different kind of CD sound than what is the typical fare. And to hear a tube DAC that doesn't just use a tube like a guitar amp noise generating fattening buffer output. Albeit still usually better than SS OP amp soulless robotic sound.

The Border Patrol DAC SE uses the same chip as the 0.1x and was just reviewed by Doug at dagogo. It lists at $1850 (but it was $1350 not long ago). It does use an analog filter but I liked it at CAS.

 

[Art K.]

Wow that is quite the jump (more than 50% - eesh). You sort of get why I like this as an owner though because as the new retail prices rise - I can sell it for what I originally paid. My first two AN products that I bought I sold for more than I paid. I could sell my OTO for more than I paid as well In 2003 it was around $1800 now it's $4000.

Unfortunately, it makes it tougher to buy in. For audio I am fortunate to be in Hong Kong where there are no import duties or taxes. Still the 0.1x was probably priced too low for too long. When the LM 502 CA is $1800US (albeit considerably less in HK) and made with cheap Chinese labour and the 0.1x which sounds better is built in Europe with real wages and benefits, it really should be sold at a higher price. I just wish it weren't because I'd like more people to be able to hear a different kind of CD sound than what is the typical fare. And to hear a tube DAC that doesn't just use a tube like a guitar amp noise generating fattening buffer output. Albeit still usually better than SS OP amp soulless robotic sound.

The Border Patrol DAC SE uses the same chip as the 0.1x and was just reviewed by Doug at dagogo. It lists at $1850 (but it was $1350 not long ago). It does use an analog filter but I liked it at CAS.

The price of the Border Patrol hasn't changed that I know of. The SE with either USB or SPDIF is $1350 or with both $1850. I went with SPDIF only as that is how I intend to use it. If I need USB, Gary Dews told me that I can send it in for a retrofit. For now if I need USB I can use the LM 515CD.

 

[Danddd]

Just my 2¢, but from auditioning some higher price point DACs, Rega DAC R and NAD M51, I ended preferring a simpler design form the Beresford, the Caiman SEG. Better soundstage and the instruments sound realistic and a favorable Pound to $ retail.

 

[awillia6]

Maybe there was something wrong with the store's real DAC and they just temporarily borrowed the TEAC from the nail salon next door...

 

[hifix]

Maybe there was something wrong with the store's real DAC and they just temporarily borrowed the TEAC from the nail salon next door...

Thats a big right hand right there.

 

[awillia6]

You were (and still are) pumping up the DAC's reputation by association with high-end gear; I simply showed how it could be deflated on the same basis. Both are unwarranted and unreliable measures of audio quality, as you should know.

 

[Art K.]

Thanks, Dave. I did look at the TEAC DAC as I respect your opinion and your ear. In the the end curiosity over the Schiit and then the NOS approach won the day. My guess is that the TEAC probably sounds more natural than the very good comparably priced Schiit. I'm hoping the Border Partol steals the show.

 

[Art K.]

Border Patrol DAC due in mid next week.

 

[Art K.]

...and one day later the Line Magnetic CD is due back repaired (fingers crossed).

 

[Art K.]

Border Patrol DAC SE in the house and making music.

 

[olson_jr]

"Border Patrol, what an unusual name," he thought after scanning this post and thinking he just read, "Border Patrol in the house."

 

[mustvid]

Border Patrol DAC SE in the house and making music.

I didn't see any mention of the Rega DAC-R. I have it and really like it. I am interested in hearing your thoughts about the Border Patrol. It gets rave reviews.

 

[IPADave]

Border Patrol DAC SE in the house and making music.

That looks like a fine DAC. I'm also interested in your impressions.

-Dave

 

[Art K.]

I am running it in now. I also have my Line Magnetic CD player back and it's working well. The Oppo isn't the best transport but it'll have to do for now. I might try the LM as a transport and compare it directly with the DAC....fun to be had.

 

[IPADave]

^^^^
It's good to have choices.

-Dave

 

[Art K.]

This Border Patrol DAC SE is pretty friggin amazing. I am impressed. Even in direct comparison to the LM CD player.

 

[RGA]

This Border Patrol DAC SE is pretty friggin amazing. I am impressed. Even in direct comparison to the LM CD player.

Glad you like it - I chose the Volti Rival and Border Patrol DAC and CEC transport room as one of the 3 best rooms at a show - and at that time I did not know it was a NOS DAC but it was one of the only 3 that made digital sound more like analog and thus "good" - the LM is quite good but it should be outclassed by a good NOS DAC/CD player.

In theory a NOS DAC can be more sensitive to the transport mechanism because it NOS is a read once convert once with no error correction or buffering. When I went from the likes of the cheapy mechanism in the 215 to the CDT Two/II for a NOS DAC it was pretty hefty improvement. But it's also too hefty a price tag for most of us to afford.

Still - a dedicated transport may offer sizeable gains to the LM or Oppo.

 

[Art K.]

I tried both the Oppo and LM as transports and the difference was, to my ears, inaudible. I am sticking with the Oppo. I also played the LM player against the DAC. The LM player had a meatier sound but didn't have the detail and subtlety that the BP SE has. Both sound great but I can only keep one.

 

[RGA]

I tried both the Oppo and LM as transports and the difference was, to my ears, inaudible. I am sticking with the Oppo. I also played the LM player against the DAC. The LM player had a meatier sound but didn't have the detail and subtlety that the BP SE has. Both sound great but I can only keep one.

The LM is more of an additive buffer tube so it adds that thicker presence - all in all that is not such a bad trait and often beats the thin edgy sound of most non tube CD players. The LM uses a very cheap transport mechanism from Sanyo and the OPPO also uses a very cheap mechanism. It's not completely about the mechanism but it's kind of all or nothing - a CD player that us either the CEC or one that uses the Philips Pro 2 - those make notable improvements - every other transport used by every manufacturer is basically $20 or less.

It's so weird to me - CD players, transports using $20 transport and then nothing until the Philips Pro2 which is $500 and there is nothing in between anymore.

All else being equal I would take the SS OPPO as a transport over the tube of the LM as the latter can generate extra noise - my LM 215 is the only thing in the chain that adds noise in my stereo just operating as a transport. I have been tempted several times to sell it and get the OPPO 203 or 205 which is still available in Hong Hong.

The Project Box RS I am interested in because DECO Audio carries CEC and AN (with the Pro2) and thus they know what the best remaining transports are for sane money (and insane money). They chose ProJect transports as their entry level series - so they have sort of done the homework for me. Still around $1,300 for a top loader (they also have slot one but I hate slot loaders). But then if I would pay $1300 I may as well wait and get the $2500 belt drive from CEC. It never ends.