Classic Receiver/New Speakers, did I make the right decision
- Thread starter fjship
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- marantz 18 elac ub5
spark1
Lunatic Member
The Elac's have a low sensitivity rating (in other words, they need more power than a speaker with a higher rating to achieve the same loudness), and a 4 ohm impedance rating (which means your amp has to put out more current/more power to drive them than if they were 8 ohm rated).
When trying to drive the Elac's to high levels, your Marantz is probably clipping the signal because it isn't capable of reproducing it cleanly (it's running out of juice!). A clipped signal = distortion. Minor clipping usually isn't all that noticeable, but it gets exponentially worse as you push the amp harder.
So, if you want to listen at loud levels, even on an occasional basis, or have a large space, the Elac speakers were probably not the best choice. If you decide to go with something else, I would recommend speakers with a higher sensitivity rating (at least 90-92dB), and a higher impedance rating (8 ohms).
Note that I am assuming the Marantz to be in good working order. It is quite long in the tooth, and may well have a problem which is causing your speaker distortion...but just based on the specs of the speakers vs the specs of the amp, and the fact that the distortion is in both speakers, clipping is the most likely problem.
When trying to drive the Elac's to high levels, your Marantz is probably clipping the signal because it isn't capable of reproducing it cleanly (it's running out of juice!). A clipped signal = distortion. Minor clipping usually isn't all that noticeable, but it gets exponentially worse as you push the amp harder.
So, if you want to listen at loud levels, even on an occasional basis, or have a large space, the Elac speakers were probably not the best choice. If you decide to go with something else, I would recommend speakers with a higher sensitivity rating (at least 90-92dB), and a higher impedance rating (8 ohms).
Note that I am assuming the Marantz to be in good working order. It is quite long in the tooth, and may well have a problem which is causing your speaker distortion...but just based on the specs of the speakers vs the specs of the amp, and the fact that the distortion is in both speakers, clipping is the most likely problem.
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spark1
Lunatic Member
Well, this is AudioKarma. If you don't like my answer, just wait a bit. You are almost sure to get a totally contrary one.
Djcoolray
Addicted Member
The sensitivity rating of a speaker is about how much of the signal will be reproduced by the speaker itself. This is a technical forum, some speakers are not designed for loud volume. Learn what technical specifications are for any given peice of equipment. There are plenty of online reviews to help you pick the right speakers, so if you don’t like those speakers....take them back for a refund !!
Also, if the capacitors in your receiver are not working properly that may also cause distortion at higher volume. So I would suggest taking the speakers back and having someone replace all the capacitors with something technically superior. Then learn about speakers and don’t expect to find a perfect match right away.
Steve Gottenberg is a great online stereo reviewer, read as many of his reviews as possible.
Also don’t expect a certain response because there are people that are like sharks on this forum and they will be circling for the attack !!
Also, if the capacitors in your receiver are not working properly that may also cause distortion at higher volume. So I would suggest taking the speakers back and having someone replace all the capacitors with something technically superior. Then learn about speakers and don’t expect to find a perfect match right away.
Steve Gottenberg is a great online stereo reviewer, read as many of his reviews as possible.
Also don’t expect a certain response because there are people that are like sharks on this forum and they will be circling for the attack !!
spark1
Lunatic Member
Sensitivity has nothing to do with how much of the signal will be reproduced. That would be frequency response.
Rather, sensitivity is a measurement of the sound pressure (loudness, measured in decibels/dB) produced by the speaker at a specified input (normally 2.83V, which is one watt with an impedance of 8 ohms, and 2 watts with an impedance of 4 ohms), at a specified distance (normally 1 meter).
A speaker with a sensitivity rating of 85dB and an impedance of 4 ohms - like the Elacs owned by the OP - requires four times as much power to achieve a given loudness when compared to a speaker with a sensitivity rating of 88dB and an impedance of 8 ohms.
To reach the same loudness, the ELAC requires eight times the power vs a speaker with a sensitivity rating of 91dB and 8 ohm impedance.
As regards capacitors; I strongly disagree with your advice. These are new (or fairly new) speakers. The problems is almost assuredly not the crossover capacitors.
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Djcoolray
Addicted Member
Talking about the capacitors in the receiver....
If a speaker requires eight times the power....how much signal does it require to produce the same sound ?
Enough said....
spark1
Lunatic Member
I have no idea what you are asking. Enough said.
If the receiver doesn’t have enough power, why do the speakers sound like they are going to blow up if I go halfway on the volume??
Unfortunately, it sounds like the answer you didn't want to hear is the correct one; 40 wpc isn't enough. From another thread you posted in.
"Usually 85db sensitivity needs higher than 100wpc. I read somewhere online for recommended wpc against db. For around 89db, 100wpc is more than sufficient. For 85db, 140 watt, you will most likely need more than 100 wpc amp to get best out of the speakers and more forgiving sound for low quality recording or file".
"Usually 85db sensitivity needs higher than 100wpc. I read somewhere online for recommended wpc against db. For around 89db, 100wpc is more than sufficient. For 85db, 140 watt, you will most likely need more than 100 wpc amp to get best out of the speakers and more forgiving sound for low quality recording or file".
halfway on the volume is not really 'anything', its not some sort of absolute. into a proper 8ohm load, by 12-1 oclock position, a standard audio taper machine is about the limits of clipping. IIRC only yamaha ever made an attempt to wiggle around this with an asymptotic volume control that theoretically could never hit this limit. and mind you, changing impedance throws the whole calculation out of whack. I have a mint set of HPM100As in the shop hooked up to an sx650 - not exactly a powerhouse and at 1/3 the volume on the dial the sound is very intrusive in a 8000sq ft store.
Moby Dick
Active Member
I have no expertise in any technical advice,
I just want to give my experience with these exact speakers and my Marantz 2265B.
I recently purchased the elacs uni-fi ub5s to pair with my Marantz 2265B and I was concerned if it was asking too much of the 40 year old Marantz.
It turns-out so far to be a great match.
I rarely turn the volume past 9:00 and although I haven’t measured the spl, I would guess it is around 85-90db using a cd.
My point is,
I am more curious if your receiver needs to be looked at.
I would think you should be able to drive those speakers to a modest level before reaching 12:00 on the volume knob(yes I realize volume knob position is not an indicator of power).
I just want to give my experience with these exact speakers and my Marantz 2265B.
I recently purchased the elacs uni-fi ub5s to pair with my Marantz 2265B and I was concerned if it was asking too much of the 40 year old Marantz.
It turns-out so far to be a great match.
I rarely turn the volume past 9:00 and although I haven’t measured the spl, I would guess it is around 85-90db using a cd.
My point is,
I am more curious if your receiver needs to be looked at.
I would think you should be able to drive those speakers to a modest level before reaching 12:00 on the volume knob(yes I realize volume knob position is not an indicator of power).
spark1
Lunatic Member
Because the volume control is not linear.
85dB, 4ohm rated, dropping into mid 3s.
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Freddymac2
Super Member
To the OP:
We are here to help all! It clearly sounds like the 18 is running out of gas, if it is distorting at that low of a setting. Although you said it was in good shape, I do not think it is. 40 watts is not much power, For what ever reason your unit is only putting out 20 watts before it distorts. The 2265 is putting out 60 watts and working properly, This is only my opinion of course, but do come back and tell us what you find, We can all learn something.
We are here to help all! It clearly sounds like the 18 is running out of gas, if it is distorting at that low of a setting. Although you said it was in good shape, I do not think it is. 40 watts is not much power, For what ever reason your unit is only putting out 20 watts before it distorts. The 2265 is putting out 60 watts and working properly, This is only my opinion of course, but do come back and tell us what you find, We can all learn something.
spark1
Lunatic Member
Just curious...how did you conclude it's only putting out 20 watts?
