CLEANING VINYL - The AK compendium of fact, fiction and collective wisdom

[WaynerN]

New vinyl can be a crap shoot. I have found that there are labels that just don't understand how to make records from beginning to end. Perhaps some reading this post will nod their heads and think of a label or two that they have had trouble with.

MOFI is all thumbs up in my book. Friday is not.

'ner

 

[4-2-7]

New vinyl can be a crap shoot. I have found that there are labels that just don't understand how to make records from beginning to end. Perhaps some reading this post will nod their heads and think of a label or two that they have had trouble with.

MOFI is all thumbs up in my book. Friday is not.

'ner

That would do no good to anyone. What needs to be understood is the many aspects and companies involved.

Source
Lable
Master
Pressing Plant.
Distributor


Then we can look at the transport and where one lives on this planet. Even if the top five companies got it right what about that hot truck driving though a desert or poor storage in a building on it's way to a retailer.

 

[onwardjames]

Good points 427, indeed. Back on the cleaning side of things, I glued side 1 of that Van Cliburn.


It was pristine looking, but after a dawn scrub, rinse, enzyme, scrub, rinse, shopvac, and finally, a Spinclean, still had noise.

After the glue, there is less pops and noise.

I'm going to analyze this vs side 2 which hasn't been glued.

 

[4-2-7]

Good points 427, indeed. Back on the cleaning side of things, I glued side 1 of that Van Cliburn.


It was pristine looking, but after a dawn scrub, rinse, enzyme, scrub, rinse, shopvac, and finally, a Spinclean, still had noise.

After the glue, there is less pops and noise.

I'm going to analyze this vs side 2 which hasn't been glued.

Dude I would have tossed the record if thats what I had to do to clean it. There would be a CD revival LOL

 

[onwardjames]

No shit, brother.

But sometimes, hard work reveals jems.

Just look at that fine car you have. I'm sure during the resto there were some moments where you were thinking "Dear God...."

How'd I'd love to take a ride in that thing.

 

[Grbluen]

No glue, but I have used the scrubbing bubbles!

 

[HTWillie]

I'm new to this vinyl geekery, so forgive me if it's a silly question - is it possible, with anything less than a scanning electron microscope, to visually inspect the grooves and see the offending dirt, dust, grime, mold, hard water deposits, etc., before and after a cleaning?

Someone mentioned a jewelers loupe. Those are typically 10-12x magnification. I've got a $3 100x magnifier but never looked at a record. I seem to remember iPhone camera attachments can magnify pretty well.

Would something like this be useful?

 

[onwardjames]

No glue, but I have used the scrubbing bubbles!

How were your results, and how long did you let it sit on the record?

I'm new to this vinyl geekery, so forgive me if it's a silly question - is it possible, with anything less than a scanning electron microscope, to visually inspect the grooves and see the offending dirt, dust, grime, mold, hard water deposits, etc., before and after a cleaning?

Someone mentioned a jewelers loupe. Those are typically 10-12x magnification. I've got a $3 100x magnifier but never looked at a record. I seem to remember iPhone camera attachments can magnify pretty well.

Would something like this be useful?

I have a simple magnifying glass with three loupes. Very hard to see much of anything, even with all 3, which I think is 15x.

Give one an idea, but yeah, you'd need 100-200x I'd think to really see stuff. Just a guess.

 

[elcoholic]

Trust your ears. If a record is noisy, clean it again. If you've gone the distance with cleaning a couple times and it's not improved then it's likely damaged or a bad pressing. When hunting used records trust your fingertips to test scratches. Most of the scratches you can't feel you won't hear either.

 

[onwardjames]

Trust your ears. If a record is noisy, clean it again. If you've gone the distance with cleaning a couple times and it's not improved then it's likely damaged or a bad pressing. When hunting used records trust your fingertips to test scratches. Most of the scratches you can't feel you won't hear either.

Truth. Been my experience as well.

 

[soundmig]

onwardjames …. thank you for keeping this topic front and center. Based on your (and others) comments I tried SB, and wow does that work. I know there is concern about what it may do to the vinyl (did anyone sort that out yet?), but I took a practically unplayable record to very playable and enjoyable in one quick SB cleaning. I also tried enzymes, but not much luck with that yet. I'll have to try the enzyme prep described in the posts. Next, I'm going to try glue and see how that goes. Again, thanks for keeping this going and for your overall "attitude" which I find to be very helpful and pragmatic

 

[onwardjames]

onwardjames …. thank you for keeping this topic front and center. Based on your (and others) comments I tried SB, and wow does that work. I know there is concern about what it may do to the vinyl (did anyone sort that out yet?), but I took a practically unplayable record to very playable and enjoyable in one quick SB cleaning. I also tried enzymes, but not much luck with that yet. I'll have to try the enzyme prep described in the posts. Next, I'm going to try glue and see how that goes. Again, thanks for keeping this going and for your overall "attitude" which I find to be very helpful and pragmatic

I hate to seem like I'm flogging a weak thread, because cat threads and my large thread about peeves seems to grow like mad.

However, I think this thread should be a one-stop event for all our collective experience and knowledge. Lots of mis-information out there, and I know vinyl is near and dear to our hearts.

Thanks for your kind words. How did you use the SB? What we are looking for are hard and fast rules so that vinyl is clean, and vinyl is safe.

As for damage with SB or the glue treatment, let's be honest - vinyl is pretty darn tough. Still, I bow to higher authorities on this.

Vince1 has been excellent for our knowledge of the chemical intricacies of pva and enzymes, etc. Botrytis and Mhardy are also experts in these fields, so their words carry weight.

I glued a Conway Twitty album for a friend, thing was pitiful and very much an "enjoyed" record.

The glue did what the scrubbing bubbles, Spinclean, etc, could not. I actually SAW chunks of crap in the glue when I removed.

For doubters, I'm only emphatic because it has changed my pleasure level to another plane with records. :thmbsp:

Some fear from Vince1 that the plasticizers are being removed. I acknowledge this, and state thusly - with a 99c record that's not going to be played at ALL without it, I'm willing to take the risk.

I even glued my 1st pressing "White" album, which may have been foolish, but guess what?

It sounds much better.

Please keep the input coming, and thanks for the civility thus far.

 

[soundmig]

The SB treatment was real simple. I used the 4-1/2" dent pullers available at harbor freight ($2.99 each) to protect the label (2 - one on each side). This album had been spin cleaned before so I simply sprayed SB on and let it sit for a couple of minutes. I then rinsed with distilled water and dried it using those surgical sponge things that spin clean sells (those scare me btw). I put the record on (Linda Rondstat w/ Nelson Riddle Orchestra) used my carbon fiber brush and wow - it was very close to dead silent (was previously unlistenable). It is clean enough now that I know I can record it using vinyl studio and declick it for a near flawless archive file. So, at that point if the SB renders the vinyl useless at some point - I will still have the music. BTW - since most plumbing pipe is PVC and scrubbing bubbles is used by gazzilions of people daily - if it were degrading to vinyl - wouldn't they take it off the market (as the liability would be huge)?

 

[soundmig]

Quick Question: Has Gruv-Glide (now Grub-Glide II) been discussed here? I used this stuff years ago and it seemed to be useful at reducing static and it claimed to reduce friction I believe. I was looking for it the other day and everyone seems to be out of it??? Any thoughts on its usefulness? where to get it?

 

[elcoholic]

Not in this thread, but elsewhere on AK. I haven't tried it myself, but have a used record or too that were treated with a similar product, LAST, and I can't say one way or another whether there's a difference. To be frank, treatments are beyond cleaning and therefore beyond the scope of this thread and should probably be a separate discussion to keep this one on the nice civil track it is on so far.

 

[onwardjames]

To be frank, treatments are beyond cleaning and therefore beyond the scope of this thread and should probably be a separate discussion to keep this one on the nice civil track it is on so far.

Excellently put, elcoholic!

Just finished transferring Ray Charles Crying Time, and had glued both sides. Transferring side 2, there was some static buildup, and I could see dust with a flashlight, LOTS of dust.

On a whim, took the record and splashed distilled water on it, allowed to dry.

Static gone, pops reduced.

Still looking for 99% isopropyl alcohol to mix with it, in a 3 to 1 ratio if I remember correctly, per WaynerN. I have an old Discwasher brush ready to apply.

On a side note, I had glued side 1 of this album twice with Titebond II. This last time, for kicks and giggles, I used the Aleene's tacky glue. That stuff STICKS, but man, the record is shiny, and sounds just a little better. A very large POP on track 2 is now just a tiny click.

I think the strength of the bond, when pulled off, helps to straighten scratched vinyl. Not the first time this has happened.

 

[soundmig]

Not in this thread, but elsewhere on AK. I haven't tried it myself, but have a used record or too that were treated with a similar product, LAST, and I can't say one way or another whether there's a difference. To be frank, treatments are beyond cleaning and therefore beyond the scope of this thread and should probably be a separate discussion to keep this one on the nice civil track it is on so far.

Fair enough. Sorry … But … Gruv-Glide bills itself as a record cleaner, contains some of the quant molecules that have been discussed here, and may ... "may" ... address the friction issue that has come up. If you could point me to the proper thread I will move it over there

 

[onwardjames]

Fair enough. Sorry … But … Gruv-Glide bills itself as a record cleaner, contains some of the quant molecules that have been discussed here, and may ... "may" ... address the friction issue that has come up. If you could point me to the proper thread I will move it over there

I'm interested in the friction part of it as well. I've read most of the threads about LAST and Gruvglide, etc. I suppose it works just fine, but I've never tried it.

A thread or two.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=391206

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279204&page=2

and a very interesting one about Static Guard vs Gruv Glide.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=102511

For me, I'll stick with just clean vinyl, tho I'd be willing to try Gruv Glide or LAST if I had some.

 

[soundmig]

Thanks … interesting reads. And how do you find those threads so easily?
As for the alcohol. I've seen 91% at the grocery store, but not 99%. Maybe one could adjust the formula a wee bit to use 91% instead (8% more of the 91% alcohol and an equivalent volume less of distilled or DI water)? Assuming the other 9% of the 91% alcohol is water - that might work?

 

[elcoholic]

Excellently put, elcoholic!

Just finished transferring Ray Charles Crying Time, and had glued both sides. Transferring side 2, there was some static buildup, and I could see dust with a flashlight, LOTS of dust.

On a whim, took the record and splashed distilled water on it, allowed to dry.

Static gone, pops reduced.

Still looking for 99% isopropyl alcohol to mix with it, in a 3 to 1 ratio if I remember correctly, per WaynerN. I have an old Discwasher brush ready to apply.

On a side note, I had glued side 1 of this album twice with Titebond II. This last time, for kicks and giggles, I used the Aleene's tacky glue. That stuff STICKS, but man, the record is shiny, and sounds just a little better. A very large POP on track 2 is now just a tiny click.

I think the strength of the bond, when pulled off, helps to straighten scratched vinyl. Not the first time this has happened.

LOL - Are we going to get into a sub-discussion on the merits of PVA type l (std), ll (long open time) & lll (water resistant)? I suppose Type l would be the best for LP's. I'd stay away from Titebond Melamine glue though.