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Crosley Taking On U-Turn

Discussion in 'Turntables' started by leemelone, Dec 5, 2018 at 4:12 PM.

  1. judsonw

    judsonw Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    791
    Location:
    Bellingham, WA, USA
    Humorously, you kept my superfluous 'a' in there (a relic from when I initially wrote "that is not the case for a lot of people")
     

     

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  2. GChief

    GChief Not well known, super member or other silliness Subscriber

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    Fixed it ;)
     
  3. luke85

    luke85 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    701
    Location:
    UK
    well at least the tonearm has a tracking force, be a decent starter deck for a young teenager just getting into records
     
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  4. 63pontiacgp

    63pontiacgp "Tubes Smell Good" Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    For me and a lot of us, it isn't. But for the folks that want to run it with powered speakers or a newer amp that doesn't have a phono input it is.

    Mike
     
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  5. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan AK Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,636
    Location:
    Oregon
    In spite of the title of the thread, I don't think Crosley is taking on U-Turn, at least not with the C8 being discussed in this thread. I think they are going after the lower end models from Audio-Technica (AT-LP3), Teac (TN-300), Fluance (RT-80), etc.

    All of these models sell in the same ~$200 price range as the Crosley C8, have comparable features (built-in preamp, Audio Technica MM cartridge, etc.).

    The differences I see are brand name and specifications. All of these other manufacturers publish specs for their products. Crosley doesn't bother. They know their market.

    These are the "specifications" they list for their top of the line, $509.95 C20 model (quoted directly from the Crosley web site):

    SPECIFICATIONS
    Audio Grade Solid MDF Plinth

    Genuine Zebrano Wood Veneer

    11 3/4” Solid Acrylic Platter

    Bulit-In Phono Stage with USB Output

    Plays 2 Speeds – 33 1/3 and 45 RPM Records

    S Shaped Aluminum Tonearm with Sapphire Bearings

    Belt Driven Turnable Mechanism

    Manual Return Tone Arm

    Anti Skate Adjustment

    Adjustable Tone Arm Weight

    Ortofon OM10 Cartridge, Pre- Mounted

    Special turntable feet for effective vibration control

    Clear Removable Dust Cover

    Those aren't specifications. That's a list of features.

    Compare that to the specifications published by Teac on their web site for the TN-300:

    TN-300 SPECIFICATIONS
    Turntable section
    Drive System Belt Drive
    Motor DC Motor
    Speed 33 1/3 RPM, 45 RPM
    Rotation Speed Variation +/–2%
    Wow and Flutter 0.2%
    Signal-to-Noise Ratio 67dB or higher (A-weighted, 20kHz LPF)
    60dB or higher (unweighted, 20kHz LPF)
    Platter Aluminum Die-cast
    Diameter of Platter 12", 30cm
    Tonearm section
    Type Static Balance, Straight
    Effective Arm Length 8.8", 223mm
    Stylus Pressure Range 0 to 5g
    Supported Cartridge Weight 3.5 to 6.5g
    Anti-skating Adjustment Supported
    Cartridge section
    Type MM type (audio-technica AT95E factory installed)
    Stylus Shape Elliptical
    Stylus Construction Bonded Round Shank
    Mount Half inch
    Frequency Response 20Hz to 20kHz
    Channel Separation 20dB at 1kHz
    Channel Balance 2.0dB
    Tracking Force 1.5 to 2.5g
    Vertical Tracking Angle 20 degrees
    Supported Load Impedance 47k ohms
    Output Voltage 3.5mV (1kHz, 5cm/sec.)
    Stylus Pressure 2.0g +/–0.5g
    Cartridge Weight 5.7g +/–0.5g
    Head-shell Weight 10g (including Screws, Nuts and Wires)
    Replacement Stylus audio-technica ATN95E
    Phono Equalizer Amplifier
    Type of Amplifier MM type (On/Thru switchable)
    Analog Output
    Connector RCA Pin jack (Gold-plated)
    Output Voltage Phono/Line switchable
    Phono Output 4.5mV +/–3dB
    Line Output 120mV (–13dBV)
    USB Output section
    Connector USB B type
    Output Signal PCM 48kHz/16-bit
    Supported OS Windows 7
    Windows 8
    Windows 8.1
    Windows 10
    OS X Lion (10.7)
    OS X Mountain Lion (10.8)
    OS X Mavericks (10.9)
    OS X Yosemite (10.10)
    OS X El Capitan (10.11)
    macOS Sierra (10.12)
    Power AC 100 to 240V, 50/60Hz
    Power Consumption 1.5W (less than 0.5W at Standby)
    Overall Dimensions
    (W x H x D) 16.5" x 4.6" x 14.0"
    420 x 117 x 356 mm
    Weight Approx. 10.8 lbs. 4.9 kg
    Accessories Rubber Sheet, EP Adapter, Counter Weight, Head-shell (audio-technica AT95E), Platter, Dust Cover, Rubber Feet fro Dust Cover x2, Hinge x2, RCA Audio Cable, AC Adapter (GPE053A-120050-Z), Owner's Manual (including Warranty Card)

    If I was in the market for a NEW turntable in the $200 price range, I'd definitely take look at the models from Teac, Audio Technica and Fluance over the C8 from Crosley. At least those manufacturers are serious enough about their products to publish specifications for them.

    It's great that there are choices, other than vintage, for those entering the hobby, but there are better choices in the same price range.
     
    DavidTT likes this.
  6. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan AK Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,636
    Location:
    Oregon
    Actually, the cartridge is one of the best features of this new model from Crosley. It's the same Audio Tehcnica AT3600L that has been discussed here at length. It's an $11 Chinese made cartridge with a 0.6 mil conical stylus, but a very good sounding one. Plus, there are elliptical and Vivid Line stylus upgrades available that fit this cartridge.

    Since Crosley publishes zero specs for their products, it's hard to say if a better cartridge/stylus will offer improved sound quality, or if the table/tonearm would be the limiting factors.
     

     

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  7. dahoo

    dahoo Active Member

    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    San Jose, California
    My thoughts go to their founder Powell Crosley and family.
     
  8. hbucker

    hbucker Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    Be that as it may... I'm not challenging why they have the brand name they have. I'm suggesting that it represents a certain niche of products. Distancing themselves from that branding could be helpful.
     
  9. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan AK Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,636
    Location:
    Oregon
    I think their marketing strategy is exactly the opposite of what you propose. They are trying to leverage the Crosley name, not distance themselves from it. They are looking to upsell people who buy their $59.95 traveler models. Those people don't associate the Crosley name with crap, they associate it with affordable. The C8 offers them an upgrade path with a familiar brand when they feel like they've outgrown their $59.95 special.
     
  10. hbucker

    hbucker Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    I don't disagree. I'm suggesting what they should do, IMO. Not what they are doing.
     
  11. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan AK Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    But you're suggestion assumes their target market associates the Crosley name with junk. I'm suggesting it doesn't. People who go shopping for a Crosley aren't aware of the negative reputation of the Crosley brand (and they sell their $59.95 specials by the millions). These are not discriminating shoppers. Crosley doesn't even bother to publish specs for any of their models. They know it's not necessary. They know their market. They are capitalizing on their established brand, not trying to distance themselves from it.

    They own the low end of the turntable market. They are leveraging their huge market share at the low end to try to upsell from the sub-$100 price point to the $200 price point. Abandoning their brand name removes the name recognition advantage they have with their target customer base. You and I may associate the Crosley name with cheap junk. Their target customers, and there are millions of them, do not.
     

     

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  12. vwestlife

    vwestlife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    730
    I doubt they care. Most of the people who have a strongly negative opinion of the Crosley brand name would never be in the market for a $200 turntable no matter what its brand name is.
     
    MCM_Fan likes this.
  13. hbucker

    hbucker Active Member

    Messages:
    473
    Ford, Mercury, Lincoln = perhaps a real life example.

    Again, not disagreeing. Just pointing out a particular strategy that seems valid if they want to be taken more seriously outside of their usual target market.

    This has already gotten more attention than it deserves. I'll respectfully leave y'all to your opinions.

    Peace out.
     
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  14. polypetalous

    polypetalous AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    Wichita, KS
    Probably true and I am clearly "out of touch" ... but in watching my kids they seem to get their reviews/opinions from youtube (and the like). From what I have seen on youtube, any mention of "crosley" seems to bring out the troves of "junk" "ruin your records" etc. kind of comments and counter points.

    I see a lot of videos of young people presenting their "new crosley" and the videos have "comments disabled" due to the overwhelming opinions against the brand.
    Again, just my "outside view in."

    Ben
     
  15. restorer-john

    restorer-john Addicted Member

    Messages:
    6,527
    Location:
    Australia
    I think Crosley is taking on the entire entry level segment. They'll probably win it too. Expect more I think.

    c6.JPG

    http://www.crosleyradio.com/turntables/product-details?productkey=C6A&model=C6A-RE

    c3.JPG
    http://www.crosleyradio.com/turntables/product-details?productkey=C3A&model=C3A-RE

    c20.JPG

    http://www.crosleyradio.com/turntables/product-details?productkey=C20A&model=C20A-ZE

    c10.JPG

    The C10 and C20 definitely look to be serious models. The C20 is a Project arm with supposed sapphire bearings. Their styling is right on the money too.

    Gotta love their support and accessories! http://www.crosleyradio.com/accessories/

    and these TT stands : http://www.crosleyradio.com/accessories/product-details?productkey=CF1105&model=CF1105-NA

    http://www.crosleyradio.com/accessories/product-details?productkey=ST66&model=ST66-PA

    I think I'll get a t-shirt just for fun and wear it to my local HiFi store. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018 at 5:29 PM
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  16. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan AK Subscriber

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    Would you pay over $500 for a turntable with ZERO published specs?
     

     

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  17. olddude55

    olddude55 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    This might seem like sheer ignorance but I've never once looked that published specs on any turntable I've ever owned going back to 1965.
    I'd want to see on "in the flesh" before I bought one, but other than that the specs don't mean much to me.
     
    pyoung272 likes this.
  18. MCM_Fan

    MCM_Fan AK Subscriber

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    2,636
    Location:
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    I'd at least want the manufacturer to publish the basic specs. If not, it seems like they are trying to hide something. Especially, since publishing specs has been standard in the industry for over 40 years. There are other, more reputable brands competing at the same price points that publish complete specs for their products. They don't seem to think they have anything to hide.
     
  19. Ken Boyd

    Ken Boyd AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    16,160
    Location:
    Florida
    I am still amazed at why anyone in these hi tech ages would buy a budget table for these prices when they could go buy a clean used CD, or DVD player at any thrift store that will blow away most any turntable other than some of the really good systems. Add to that you gotta pay at least 20 dollars for the cheapest of new Vinyl records, while CD's are everywhere for a dollar or two, It is one thing when your a veteran at vinyl with a good system that can get close to a digital system but really why would anyone want to spend these high prices to go backwards, I really don't know.

    But then again what do I know, I own a Rec-O-Kut as one of my tables. :rflmao:
     
    captouch likes this.
  20. MisterDK

    MisterDK Active Member

    Messages:
    249
    Location:
    Los Padres Forest, USA
    Maybe I read this wrong but - I go to those thrift stores too and for two bucks a pop, I can buy vintage records that sound better than CD’s on my system. Yes, they cost about the same as used CD’s (which I also buy). No pops or clicks with CD’s, but less warmth and presence too. There are very few records that I’m willing to spend $20 or more on, when I can still find excellent pre-owned for a couple bucks each.

    It doesn’t happen every day, but if you look - the records still show up in nice shape for chump change.
    You’d be -amazed- at the records I found this week for $1.99 each (I sure was!) - Christmas came early!

    BTW Ken, nothing wrong with your Rek-O-Kut.. I have a few Empires, made just up the road from your Rek-O-Kut - and old records sound amazing on ‘em. ^_^
     

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