Cylinder head shims- any experiences using them?
- Thread starter beat_truck
- Start date
beat_truck
Addicted Member
Yep, TTY bolts.
I didn't price out a used head, but one would have been a gamble anyhow. Plus, the shop had already started work on it and the problems with it piled up as they got into it. A remanufactured head would not have been cheap at all.
Pressure test $45
Resurface $45
Shim $55
Vacuum test $12
3 new valves $36
I'm sure there will be more for disassembly and reassembly.
It's a shame because I just saw a wrecked Rio with only 56k for $400. If I had found that first and known what I was getting into, I would have bought it and just swapped the whole drive train over.
Eric H
Addicted Member
I would probably just put it together with a slightly out of spec head, if it's 10 or 15 thousandths out it probably won't matter much, for a beater car and seems less problematic than messing around with shims or double gaskets.
Yes it might affect the cam timing slightly, probably not enough to notice.
You almost certainly need to use new head bolts, most newer stuff they are one time use.
Yes it might affect the cam timing slightly, probably not enough to notice.
You almost certainly need to use new head bolts, most newer stuff they are one time use.
beat_truck
Addicted Member
I think the machinist said that the head was only 6 thousandths past the limit, but I could be wrong. I am waiting on a couple seals in the mail that he needs to finish reassembling the head. When I take them to him, I am going to ask why the shim is needed and if it is really necessary. If it is just to drop the compression slightly and there is no real danger of piston/valve interference, I'm not going use it. I just really don't like the idea of one more thing between the head and the block to blow out.
arts
Addicted Member
If you are only 6 thou past limit I would run it as-is.Best bet,find an experienced mechanic at a local dealership or engine rebuilder and get an opinion from someone who actually knows for sure.
Quite frankly,I would have concerns about a head that required that much material removal to get a good surface or to get it true again. Either it was warped or they used screwdrivers to get it off.
Quite frankly,I would have concerns about a head that required that much material removal to get a good surface or to get it true again. Either it was warped or they used screwdrivers to get it off.
beat_truck
Addicted Member
It was warped. The car looks to have a new radiator, so I assume it probably started leaking and overheated. The head gasket was obviously replaced before without resurfacing it.
I think I'm going to make an account on the Kia forum and see what they have to say.
You didn't mention.
The shop doing the head work, did they offer (or did you ask) where you might get the shim?
The shop doing the head work, did they offer (or did you ask) where you might get the shim?
beat_truck
Addicted Member
I didn't ask, but they just said that they had a source that makes them and that they would get it for me. I can get more info when I talk to them again.
arts
Addicted Member
Uh oh.. In that case,I strongly suggest that you check two things before proceeding any further with this head.
1: Using a good straightedge (you can even use a tightly stretched piece of string for this,if supported at each end.) check the the deck face for bowing.
2: (And this is the really important one!) Now check the topside of the head for bowing,especially in the camshaft plane.The alignment of the camshaft bearing bosses will be a good indicator of straightness.Again,a string can be your friend.
beat_truck
Addicted Member
I'll check the block for cracks and general straightness, but at this point, the money is already spent. Unless I happen to find a crack, it is going together pretty much regardless.
beat_truck
Addicted Member
I just went out and put a straight edge on the block, and it seems OK. It is just barely perceptibly high in the very center, but I couldn't get a 10 thousandths feeler gauge (the thinnest I have) anywhere underneath the straight edge. Like I said though, it'll have to do. I'm not pulling the motor out and apart.
arts brought up a major point. On overhead camshaft engines the cam shaft bearing bores will be out of alignment if the head warps. Resurfacing the head will maintain the misalignment. The head should be straightened first so that the cam can spin freely and than if necessary it can be resurfaced.
So many of the newer engines are throw-aways today. Not really meant to be rebuilt.
I hang out and do the "special" machine work at a fully equipped race shop. Current project is a 67 Chevelle, being built to compete in the SouthEast Gassers class. Chassis is under construction and several ideas for an engine under consideration. We have a fully equipped automotive machine shop here, including balancing and airflow bench.
Fun times.
BillWojo
So many of the newer engines are throw-aways today. Not really meant to be rebuilt.
I hang out and do the "special" machine work at a fully equipped race shop. Current project is a 67 Chevelle, being built to compete in the SouthEast Gassers class. Chassis is under construction and several ideas for an engine under consideration. We have a fully equipped automotive machine shop here, including balancing and airflow bench.
Fun times.
BillWojo
beat_truck
Addicted Member
Before I took it apart, the motor ran and sounded good, aside from the miss. The machine shop should have alerted me if there were any problems. They checked everything else imaginable.
As I said, it's getting bolted on, and it is what it is. It's either going to run and I'll get some service out of it, or it's going to blow up spectacularly and go to the scrapyard.
As I said, it's getting bolted on, and it is what it is. It's either going to run and I'll get some service out of it, or it's going to blow up spectacularly and go to the scrapyard.
Shadowdog
Super Member
Maybe buy that $400 wreck as to the throw away nature of that engine will also likely bite you with other problems also as aluminum hates overheating. Those engines are done to a price in material quality and any overheating or poor treatment/maintenance in it's past can bite.
beat_truck
Addicted Member
It's a cheap throw away car. I've already spent as much money and time as I plan to on it. If it doesn't work out, it goes to the scrapyard.
FrostEOne
Active Member
We used to straighten aluminum heads at the machine shop I worked in, this is often the best way to go especially with overhead cams.
Bolted them to an inch thick steel plate and heated them in a heat treat oven. One of the 3 brothers that owned the shop melted a head once, puddle of aluminum and some valve guides and seats laying in the bottom.
That way the cam turns freely and the head needed minimal material taken off when resurfaced.
We used a true ground straight edge and resurfaced anything that was over 0.003 off, 0.010 is lot to me when it comes to head or block surface, especially if it's 0.010 high in the middle.
Tolerance of 0.0015 on alignment of main bearing bores.
Just my 2¢
Tim64
Super Member
I do not recommend stacking head gaskets ever. There has got to be a source for the head gasket shims for you car. Did the machine shop tell you how much they milled off the head because that is what you need the shim thickness to be. If a little thicker it will just lower the compression a tiny bit likely not noticeable check the link out to these guys to get a start sourcing it.
https://www.partsology.com/dnj-hs12...HNe8KJ039jYdhlx6FuDClLTgpz6G-ehhoCsLAQAvD_BwE
beat_truck
Addicted Member
Do people even read my posts?
Never once did I mention stacking head gaskets. I have gone over all of this information.beat_truck
Addicted Member
Sorry, when you said deck, I assumed you meant the block.
