DBX BX3 Stays in Protection

ivandezande

AK Subscriber
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I have a friend who decided to replace a few relays on this amp, and....somehow....shorted the impedence selector. So he gung-ho replaced a ton of transistors and resistors which seem to be correct including the output devices and the drivers/predrivers. One of the amp boards has been recapped (no idea why he only did half) and the unit comes up fine on a DBT but stays in protection. Soldering looks fine, I don't see any shorts, and the only heat damage I could find was strangely the two drivers for the fan.
If anyone has pictures of a BX3, especially the protection boards, please share. I can't seem to find any online and I had sold my BX3 MKII a few years ago.
My plan of attack I think should be transistor checking and a general recap to eliminate that variable, however it may actually add a variable...
ANy suggestions would be well appreciated from prior experience with this amp or in general!
 
I have my BX3MKII on the bench (table). You want pictures of the right board (as viewed from behind)?
 
All boards can be biased and offset.... except one of the boards is outputting 23VDC. Found er', but all the transistors test good. Now what.
 
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There is no real formal service manual for these units, just a schematic, and some adjustment data. While the BX3 and BX3-MkII share some of the same design, there are some differences, the primary being the amp boards. The BX3 has 4 amp boards, 1 for each channel. The BX3-MkII has 2, with 2 channels on each board. But the protection circuit seems to be the same, if all is well, then you are able to hear the speaker relays click when you press the corresponding button on the front panel. If you don't hear a click, it's in protection. If you are looking at the board that the fans connect to, on the BX3 that is the BF-40 board, on the MkII it's the B008A board. In either case, that is not the board the protection circuitry is on. The protection circuit is on the other back panel board. On the BX3, it is the BF-10 board, on the MkII, it is the B007A board.

I currently have both on my bench at the moment, so I have had some time to compare the schematics.

If you isolate the amp boards from the protection circuit, you can (hopefully) determine where the issue is. The amps do not need to be connected for the protection circuit to work, so if you isolate them, and you can hear the speaker relays click when you push the buttons, then the issue is with 1 or more of the amp boards, and not the protection circuit. If they are all isolated, and you still don't hear the speaker relays click when you push the buttons, the issue is with the protection circuit.

You can isolate the amps in 1 of 2 ways. Either by disconnecting the power to the amp boards, or the output wire from the amp boards. I am at work at the moment, and not able to look at the units, so this is from memory, and the schematics (my memory isn't that good :) ).

If you have the BX3 (not the MkII) then you have 4 amp boards. The MkII has a fuse for each rail for each channel on the Z01A board on the bottom of the unit. The BX3 does not have this board, or the fuses, On both units, each amp board has its own (large) blue and red power wires that all connect to the Z10A board in the case of the MkII, or in the case of the hacked up BX3 I have on the bench, pretty much directly to the large PS filter caps. These red and blue wires connect to the amp boards via push on connections, if you disconnect all of them from amp boards (Make careful note of where they go, or better yet, take pictures) then without power, the amps are isolated.

The second method is to disconnect the output wires from the amp boards, They are (I believe) Red, Blue, Yellow, and Gray. I don't remember (and the schematic does not say) what color goes to what channel. There are 2 wires of the same color close to each other on the boards, the smaller goes to the meters I think, or it is the input (Edit: the small colored wires go to the meter board), in either case the larger is the output, Again, it is a push on connection.

If they are all isolated, and you still don't hear the speaker relays click when you push the buttons, the issue is with the protection circuit. If all 4 relays click when the associated button is pushed, then you have a problem on 1 ore more of the amp boards. Connect them 1 at a time till it does not work, that channel is at fault.

In either case Turn the power off before you disconnect/connect anything! If you don't, you take the very high risk of releasing the magic smoke.

Try this, and let us know what you find.
 
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Well heck, you found the bad board while I was typing! You can still test the protection circuit though.

Check all the resistors , they can be checked in circuit, they should all read close to the marked value, but they won't be exact. If any reads substantially higher than the marked value, it is bad. Conversely, if it reads substantially lower, try swapping the meter leads and measure again. All readings will be affected by the other components in the circuit, but they should never read higher than the marked value.
 
Well heck, you found the bad board while I was typing! You can still test the protection circuit though.

Check all the resistors , they can be checked in circuit, they should all read close to the marked value, but they won't be exact. If any reads substantially higher than the marked value, it is bad. Conversely, if it reads substantially lower, try swapping the meter leads and measure again. All readings will be affected by the other components in the circuit, but they should never read higher than the marked value.
Thank you so much! I'll be sure to test the protection alone and all the resistors and report back.

Also, has anyone had experience with the rework instructions? I think I'll try to get it going then follow them, which is just a few resistors subs.
 
No pictures need then?

BTW, good info Livin4.

FYI - I bought a service manual for my BX2 from Raymond Electronics (?) in California. That was a few years ago though. You don't see the BX2 service manuals in the wild, but I have one. So, I'm sure somewhere buried under a pile of papers it that BX3 manual.
 
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Ok so some findings, I compared readings to (working) adjacent board.
Actual (correct)
R4 10.1k (26k)
R24 3.1k (3.6k)
R30 12k (17.3k)

But all of them test out of circuit fine.

With Q18 and 16, the output transistors on the positive side of things, diode checking them compared to the working channel shows a difference. With the black probe on the emitter and the red on the collector, it reads ~ 0.6. In the other channel it shows nothing. All other readings are the same.
 
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Where did you get those resistor values? I finally got a chance to look into them and none of those match the board or the schematic. What I see are as follows.

R4 27k
R24 3.9k
R30 33k

Were these replaced at some time? Are they discolored/darker color? Compare to another board and see what is there. I think someone worked on this board and installed incorrect parts. Better do a compare on all the other resistors on that board, Also, if that is the board that was recapped, make sure the values and polarity are correct. There are 5 electrolytic caps on each of the amp boards. At least on these, and per the parts list.

Did you rest those transistors in circuit? Unfortunately, transistors can not usually be tested in circuit.

Do you have a schematic?
 
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Where did you get those resistor values? I finally got a chance to look into them and none of those match the board or the schematic. What I see are as follows.

R4 27k
R24 3.9k
R30 33k

Were these replaced at some time? Are they discolored/darker color? Compare to another board and see what is there. I think someone worked on this board and installed incorrect parts. Better do a compare on all the other resistors on that board, Also, if that is the board that was recapped, make sure the values and polarity are correct. There are 5 electrolytic caps on each of the amp boards. At least on these, and per the parts list.

Did you rest those transistors in circuit? Unfortunately, transistors can not usually be tested in circuit.

Do you have a schematic?
Those are the actual values. All my measurements are in circuit, the second numbers being measurements from a working board in circuit.
These measured to the schematics given values when I pulled a leg up (I have a PDF schematic of the amp, this version). All caps are correct polarity. I will start pulling transistors and testing, thanks, I thought you could test them in circuit because I assumed a short would stay a short but realized that's not all I'm looking for.
Thanks again for the help!
 
Okay, that makes a little more sense. For some reason I understood that the values in parenthesis were the value on the resister. Transistors can sort-of be tested for short in circuit, but any resistors will throw the reading off.
 
Just put in an order for all the transistors on that board that hadn't yet been replaced (surprisingly already had half of them), new trim pots, and a huge pack of metal film resistors. Replace till it works.
 
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