Denon DL-103R for SR-929?

[samosui]

Am thinking of trying an MC cartridge for my Sansui TT. After not really listening to vinyl much I played a newly acquired, good condition album and the song I’m quite familiar with and that I typically stream (San Francisco Hustle) seemed light on the bass. Using a V15 Type IV now.

Does the SR-929 have a medium or heavy tonearm? I’ve read that the Denon DL-103R requires this?

Cheers,
John

 

[guiller]

The tonearm in the SR-929 is considered as belonging to the medium-mass class ( e.g., http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/technical-data-tonearm-sr929.94739/#post-2135072 ). If the DL-103R has a low compliance such as the DL-103, then I would look elsewhere for tonearm matching the Denon cart (e.g., a bona-fide large effective mass tonearm, like those of the early 60´s, e.g., the stock arm in a Lenco L75, first versions of the SME 3009 and 3012, AT tonearms of the 60 ´s , etc). My Audio Technica AT-1009 Mk2 tonearm works great with a DL-103 on a Lenco L75. I do have a SR-929 but I would never consider trying it with the DL-103. For the Sansui I would consider a Denon DL 304, something that has always been in my plans.

 

[Balifly]

Am thinking of trying an MC cartridge for my Sansui TT. After not really listening to vinyl much I played a newly acquired, good condition album and the song I’m quite familiar with and that I typically stream (San Francisco Hustle) seemed light on the bass. Using a V15 Type IV now.

Does the SR-929 have a medium or heavy tonearm? I’ve read that the Denon DL-103R requires this?

Cheers,
John

guiller has considerable knowledge in the Sansui SR-929 turn table.

If it is possible, borrow a Denon DL-103(R) and try it on the turn table.

It should settle the question for you personally.

My Sansui SR-838 with a similar weight tone arm has the Denon DL-301MKII on it, excellent sounding combination.

I have also used the Denon DL-301 MKII on the Sansui SR-929 with similar result.

 

[samosui]

guiller, Balifly, thanks for your suggestions. Finding another arm isn’t in the cards as I don’t want to nor do I know how to go about that task. If I start it won’t get finished as I have too many projects and too little time as it is. I’m truly a newbie when it comes to TT and may try a cartridge or two and then just enjoy.

If I were to mount a DL-103R onto the stock tonearm, what deficiencies might one notice? Reduced highs, not enough or too much bass, relatively speaking? Or is it more complicated than that as in it won’t track or the dynamic range will be compressed? Yup, totally newbie kind of questions.

Cheers,
John

 

[DavidTT]

I think you should definitely consider switching carts on that table. You'll need some way to dispose of the Shure V15 you have now, so I'll forward my address and offer to take it off of your hands.

What stylus are you running on the Shure, and what do you wish were different in its sound? Bass performance isn't something that users typically complain about with the V15.

 

[samosui]

Sure, send me your address, I have no need for the cartridge since I’m looking for something better

It looks like an original Shure needle and I think the cartridge came with a Dual 721 that I bought a number of years ago. I haven’t done a careful listen but there seemed to be a lack of bass when listening to that one song mentioned in my first post.

Cheers,
John

 

[DavidTT]

FWIW, if you aren't sure of the condition of the stylus, hours on it, etc, I would consider spending replacing it to see if you arrive at better sound from the V15. It's certainly going to produce a different sound sig than the DL-103R, but the V15 is such a highly regarded cartridge that I would want to ensure wringing every bit if goodness from it before moving on.

Sure, send me your address, I have no need for the cartridge since I’m looking for something better

It looks like an original Shure needle and I think the cartridge came with a Dual 721 that I bought a number of years ago. I haven’t done a careful listen but there seemed to be a lack of bass when listening to that one song mentioned in my first post.

Cheers,
John

 

[Balifly]

guiller, Balifly, thanks for your suggestions. Finding another arm isn’t in the cards as I don’t want to nor do I know how to go about that task. If I start it won’t get finished as I have too many projects and too little time as it is. I’m truly a newbie when it comes to TT and may try a cartridge or two and then just enjoy.

If I were to mount a DL-103R onto the stock tonearm, what deficiencies might one notice? Reduced highs, not enough or too much bass, relatively speaking? Or is it more complicated than that as in it won’t track or the dynamic range will be compressed? Yup, totally newbie kind of questions.

Cheers,
John

You may have misunderstand stand the intend of my post.

Not advocating the the replacement of the tone arm on the the Sansui SR-929.

Just suggesting that the Denon DL-301 MKII may be more suitable than the Denon DL-103(R) .

The primary concern is the compliance of the cartridge.

The suggestion is for you to put the Denon DL-103(R) on the Sansui SR-929 and listen for yourself first.

If you like the result, keep using it.

If you do not like the result, move on to something else.

 

[samosui]

FWIW, if you aren't sure of the condition of the stylus, hours on it, etc, I would consider spending replacing it to see if you arrive at better sound from the V15. It's certainly going to produce a different sound sig than the DL-103R, but the V15 is such a highly regarded cartridge that I would want to ensure wringing every bit if goodness from it before moving on.

Thanks and yes, that’s an excellent suggestion. I had thought about getting a new stylus several years ago but other hobbies got in the way. Now that I’m once again wanting to play my albums from way back when, I should get my V15 up to snuff. Definitely need to see how she sounds with a proper stylus. Any recommendations?

And I will likely still get an MC cartridge since this saying seems to be appropriate for me right now. And that is “When the going get tough, the tough go shopping.”

Cheers,
John

 

[samosui]

You may have misunderstand stand the intend of my post.

Not advocating the the replacement of the tone arm on the the Sansui SR-929.

Just suggesting that the Denon DL-301 MKII may be more suitable than the Denon DL-103(R) .

The primary concern is the compliance of the cartridge.

The suggestion is for you to put the Denon DL-103(R) on the Sansui SR-929 and listen for yourself first.

If you like the result, keep using it.

If you do not like the result, move on to something else.

Balifly, it was guiller’s post that I was referring to when I mentioned not thinking of a new arm. And I liked your suggestion of borrowing/trying a DL103R. But as I’m reading more and learning more, I am realizing why a DL-301 would make more sense. Thanks for mentioning that it works well with the SR-828 (and the SR-929). I’m a slow learner.

Cheers.
John

 

[DavidTT]

As far as styli for the V15 models, the most highly regarded are the JICOs, which can be ordered directly from JICO and shipped from Japan. Turntableneedles.com and LPGear.com offer numerous options as well. I've had great luck with HE tips in my Shure carts, but have not gotten my paws on a V15 (yet). It's one of the carts I intend to try, hopefully soon.

Thanks and yes, that’s an excellent suggestion. I had thought about getting a new stylus several years ago but other hobbies got in the way. Now that I’m once again wanting to play my albums from way back when, I should get my V15 up to snuff. Definitely need to see how she sounds with a proper stylus. Any recommendations?

And I will likely still get an MC cartridge since this saying seems to be appropriate for me right now. And that is “When the going get tough, the tough go shopping.”

Cheers,
John

 

[Balifly]

As far as styli for the V15 models, the most highly regarded are the JICOs, which can be ordered directly from JICO and shipped from Japan.

Turntableneedles.com and LPGear.com offer numerous options as well. I've had great luck with HE tips in my Shure carts, but have not gotten my paws on a V15 (yet).

It's one of the carts I intend to try, hopefully soon.

Just be cautious on which tone arm you will be using the Shure V15 III on.

Tone arms like the SME 3009 II Improved and III with low mass options and similar type were good match for the Shure V15III.

 

[samosui]

As far as styli for the V15 models, the most highly regarded are the JICOs, which can be ordered directly from JICO and shipped from Japan. Turntableneedles.com and LPGear.com offer numerous options as well. I've had great luck with HE tips in my Shure carts, but have not gotten my paws on a V15 (yet). It's one of the carts I intend to try, hopefully soon.

Thanks, David. Took you advice and ordered some new ‘needles’. Ordered a NOS SAS for the V15-IV that’s on the SR-929 (was mistaken earlier thinking it came off of a 721). And while at it, also put in an offer on a neo SAS for a V15 III-DU that did come with my 721.

Cheers,
John

 

[bobins08]

Am thinking of trying an MC cartridge for my Sansui TT. After not really listening to vinyl much I played a newly acquired, good condition album and the song I’m quite familiar with and that I typically stream (San Francisco Hustle) seemed light on the bass. Using a V15 Type IV now.

Does the SR-929 have a medium or heavy tonearm? I’ve read that the Denon DL-103R requires this?

Cheers,
John

You tonearm is actually a bit too heavy for the V15-IV to perform at its best.

I agree that it might be light for the DL 103. If you used a heavier headshell to add mass this could help. You would have to consult the users manual to see how much mass your tonearm can handle with its its stock counterweight.

DL301 mk II is a good choice. Nagaoka MP200 would be good on that arm. AT has several offerings, a new MIcro Line and some nice moving coils in the same price range as the 301.

 

[DavidTT]

...but remember bobins that the type IV includes the damper, which greatly impacts the range of tonearms that will work well with the range of Shure carts that includes them.

You tonearm is actually a bit too heavy for the V15-IV to perform at its best.

I agree that it might be light for the DL 103. If you used a heavier headshell to add mass this could help. You would have to consult the users manual to see how much mass your tonearm can handle with its its stock counterweight.

DL301 mk II is a good choice. Nagaoka MP200 would be good on that arm. AT has several offerings, a new MIcro Line and some nice moving coils in the same price range as the 301.

 

[bobins08]

...but remember bobins that the type IV includes the damper, which greatly impacts the range of tonearms that will work well with the range of Shure carts that includes them.

Yes, true. The damping brush down would help a lot.

 

[samosui]

You tonearm is actually a bit too heavy for the V15-IV to perform at its best.

I agree that it might be light for the DL 103. If you used a heavier headshell to add mass this could help. You would have to consult the users manual to see how much mass your tonearm can handle with its its stock counterweight.

DL301 mk II is a good choice. Nagaoka MP200 would be good on that arm. AT has several offerings, a new MIcro Line and some nice moving coils in the same price range as the 301.

Thanks for your suggestions, bobins. For now, I think I’ll just try out the new stylus and leave well enough alone, at least for the time being. I’ve only recently begun thinking of trying out an MC cartridge. Got lots to learn. I’m thinking that a high compliance LOMC on my Dual 721 may be my first (and likely last) venture into experimenting. I need to spend more time with the s/w (listening to music, via albums in this case) and less with the h/w (gear).

Cheers,
John

 

[Balifly]

Thanks, David. Took you advice and ordered some new ‘needles’. Ordered a NOS SAS for the V15-IV that’s on the SR-929 (was mistaken earlier thinking it came off of a 721).

And while at it, also put in an offer on a neo SAS for a V15 III-DU that did come with my 721.

Cheers,
John

Try putting some light silicone oil on the hinge of the damper brush of the neo SAS stylus assembly.

 

[samosui]

Thanks for the tip.

Cheers,
John

 

[guiller]

Balifly, it was guiller’s post that I was referring to when I mentioned not thinking of a new arm. And I liked your suggestion of borrowing/trying a DL103R. But as I’m reading more and learning more, I am realizing why a DL-301 would make more sense. Thanks for mentioning that it works well with the SR-828 (and the SR-929). I’m a slow learner.

Cheers.
John

Hey John. Sorry if I didn´t express myself clearly: I never suggested to change the tonearm, since one of the best assests of the SR-929 (as stated, e.g., in http://www.thevintageknob.org/sansui-SR-929.html ). I suggested that the Denon DL-103 is not a good match to that tonearm, at least theoretically. It could lead to resonant phenomena, bad tracking, and other bads. My suggestion was to focus on a different cart, but keeping the SR-929 in its integrity!