difference between Mcintosh, Pioneer, Sansui?

C34

130245-mcintosh__c33_preamp.jpg


MC 7072

mc7270.JPG
 
I can't help but notice that there are few comments on the sound of Mac gear, but plenty on the cachet of the gear itself. For all of their build quality, the sound, for the most part, is boring as hell.

So in other words 1970's Pioneer and Sansui are the Honda, Suzuki and Kawasaki's were as McIntosh was the Harley Davidson...

thx

HD's suck as well as at the job of being a motorcycle but people pay a high price for the name, much like Mac.

I'm trying to find vintage equipment that will have a true crisp, clear, warm, in your face, non-tiring sound. I don't even know if McIntosh can do it! For all i know I may have to go to tube or something totally different.

Quite a contradictory list of characteristics!
 
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[QUOTE=62caddy;


It wouldn't be too far to say what Harley Davidson is to motorcycles is what McIntosh is to hi fidelity.

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Ummm, I would not place MAC in the same category as HD, MAC is quality that has not changed. HD is all about money and investors and a lot of their parts are made in China and India for cost control. Although I never really liked the sound of any MAC equipment, it is personal preference.
 
That's the plan, gonna keep my fav's and liquidate the rest. So far the JBL's and the Pioneer QX-949a is a keeper, rest is up for grabs.

Which McIntosh do you recommend?

cheers :yes:

Good idea:yes: And that's exactly what I did a few years ago. Selling off a few shelves full of Pioneers Marantz, Kenwoods, and so on ended paying for this big ol Mac and I honestly couldn't be happier. No amp that I've ever owned over the years has even come close either soundwise or for brute force. And that's some 3/4 oak plywood that's slightly bowing under all that Mcweight:D
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Ugly you say Pete......Hmmmmmm
Not this Blue eyed Brunette....:thmbsp:
7tuz.jpg




If you want to step into the world of McIntosh, I would personally wouldn't bother with a mid or entry level unit such as a 5100, definitely shoot higher.
I had a great Sansui collection including a G9000, G22000 and I have sold them all in favor of what I heard from my McIntosh's.......then the collection grew....But the G22000 put up a fair fight with the C32/MC2205 I had at the time.....But in the end, the musical lushness and clear yet creamy McIntosh sound just sailed on past the Sansui....NOT that the Sansui was bad, its not, its a great sounding unit, but for ME, the Sansui was somewhat clinical, not as "musical" to my ears as the McIntosh.....

I think I good place to start is with a pre-amp like a C32, C33, C34. Then pair it up with an amplifier like a MC2205, MC7270.

As others have said, if its not your bag, then sell it on, you wont lose money on it....
I think with your current thinking you are only side-shifting, I dont think its going to be a situation where the 5100 will totally blow away any of those Japanese Rice blower receivers you have currently.....
Not everything McIntosh makes and has made is absolutely TOTL.....

Well I do prefer brunettes,that ones wearing a little to much makeup.:D I wouldn't turn down any if given to me though.I would love to compare it to my gear.
 
Kind of funny a lot of post stating they had many of the overseas brands. Not just their entry level pieces. Then decided to honestly try out MacIntosh. Not just a cheap entry level worn out unit they can get on the cheap. Further insulting it, installed into their existing system.

A Mcintosh system built with thought, with their quality pieces is what they built. This is why they like the sound of it and have an honest opinion. The opinion across the board is they don't need to look further for components. Unless they decide to look into buying more Mcintosh as new offering come out.

With McIntosh you can spend your time listening to the music and shopping for it.

Some of the bashers in the post, did they really try Mcintosh?
Most saying it's too expensive, Hype marketing, boring bla bla bla.

I say NO if they did most likely maybe a turd, that someone dumped on CL that had the price they were willing to pay maybe? :scratch2: A buying reaction, not the thought of a whole system they wanted to achieve.

That in my mind does not constitute an objective opinion.
 
Brands that we first acquire are contingent on our upbringing and the circles in which we hung out. Influences from parents, brothers, uncles, grandfathers etc. Actually at 13 years old my dad got me my very first pair of used speakers, they were Goodman's TwinAxiette's 8" coaxial. You see, In my family I grew up blue collar, so very expensive McIntosh or anything close to it never even heard of one. My dad had Normende tube console and then bought our first seperates in 1976. Altec 9's, Akai, and a Japanese brand called NEC MCS 3275. Actually out of our small family we were the most musical sound savvy of the bunch.

As I am now older and back into audio gear, my first choice was to acquire some of the items my father and I dreamt of when I was a kid, pioneer, Sansui, etc. As my taste is now evolving, I am searching for better and more fulfilling sound. As close as I can get to the real thing as possible and that I can afford.

whats funny is, its 2013 and you would think that audio gear would be so life like that you wouldnt be able to tell live from recorded... TV and video have evolved but Audio is still catching up...imho of course :)
 
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Agreed with the others insofar as an MA 5100 is probably something you'll likely grow out of rather than grow into which is why I recommended MAC 1500/MA 6200 as a better starting point without breaking the bank.

When you start moving into separates, now you're getting into gear where the best of McIntosh is to be had. Something like a C 3x preamplifier followed up by any number of excellent McIntosh amps such as the MC 2205, 2125, 2155...etc. Tube gear is up there as well but will cost a lot more - be it vintage or modern.

I don't, I had a ma6100 and got rid of it- was nothing spectacular to my ears.

It is folly to judge a manufacturer on the basis of experiences with one or a few older entry level units.

More so if the older unit(s) in question had not been positively confirmed operating up to spec to begin with.
 
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HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Pioneer, Polk, Snell, Thorens, Altec, Yamaha, Shure, Audio Technica, how many of these companies still have many many parts for 30 or 40 years old equipment? I just got received some transistors for a C-33 (1981 - 1985) from them. They ever still make runs of the glass faceplates. You can also e-mail or talk to engineering if the need arises.
Have every piece of Mc equipment I ever bought starting in 1970.
 
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Pioneer, Polk, Snell, Thorens, Altec, Yamaha, Shure, Audio Technica, how many of these companies still have many many parts for 30 or 40 years old equipment? I just got received some transistors for a C-33 (1981 - 1985) from them. They ever still make runs of the glass faceplates. You can also e-mail or talk to engineering if the need arises.
Have every piece of Mc equipment I ever bought starting in 1970.

I assume you're referring to my sig? :D

Will say finding parts for the Thorens TT is no trouble, nor the Pioneer TT. The rest are speakers, cartridges and two CD players (both Yamaha) neither of which I'd never bother having repaired if either gave trouble.

Parts for the vintage Altec (Heathkit) horn speakers are readily available; Snell & Polk speakers are all less than 3 years old so they'll probably outlive me. :sigh:

Rest is McIntosh. :)
 
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Nope, just saying what other audio equipment company that is still around
supports their older products. Know about Altec still have a pair of A7-500WII
(Magnificents) driven by bi-amped Mc's.
 
Ugly you say Pete......Hmmmmmm
Not this Blue eyed Brunette....:thmbsp:
7tuz.jpg




If you want to step into the world of McIntosh, I would personally wouldn't bother with a mid or entry level unit such as a 5100, definitely shoot higher.
I had a great Sansui collection including a G9000, G22000 and I have sold them all in favor of what I heard from my McIntosh's.......then the collection grew....But the G22000 put up a fair fight with the C32/MC2205 I had at the time.....But in the end, the musical lushness and clear yet creamy McIntosh sound just sailed on past the Sansui....NOT that the Sansui was bad, its not, its a great sounding unit, but for ME, the Sansui was somewhat clinical, not as "musical" to my ears as the McIntosh.....

I think I good place to start is with a pre-amp like a C32, C33, C34. Then pair it up with an amplifier like a MC2205, MC7270.

As others have said, if its not your bag, then sell it on, you wont lose money on it....
I think with your current thinking you are only side-shifting, I dont think its going to be a situation where the 5100 will totally blow away any of those Japanese Rice blower receivers you have currently.....
Not everything McIntosh makes and has made is absolutely TOTL.....

I agree. i own a few Mcintosh pieces, i have a C28 preamp, MX110 amplifier. I love the Mcintosh solid state sound, but IMHO the tube end of their heritage leaves a lot on the table for me. I have owned a pair of MC-30's that my Heathkit W-5m's would walk all over. I also owned a MC240, very well built and attractive but that is where the mystique ended for me. Everyone has the brands they love, hell.. we all have different ears. As far as Mcintosh is concerned, try it, listen to it and see.....
 
Brands that we first acquire are contingent on our upbringing and the circles in which we hung out. Influences from parents, brothers, uncles, grandfathers etc. Actually at 13 years old my dad got me my very first pair of used speakers, they were Goodman's TwinAxiette's 8" coaxial. You see, In my family I grew up blue collar, so very expensive McIntosh or anything close to it never even heard of one. My dad had Normende tube console and then bought our first seperates in 1976. Altec 9's, Akai, and a Japanese brand called NEC MCS 3275. Actually out of our small family we were the most musical sound savvy of the bunch.

As I am now older and back into audio gear, my first choice was to acquire some of the items my father and I dreamt of when I was a kid, pioneer, Sansui, etc. As my taste is now evolving, I am searching for better and more fulfilling sound. As close as I can get to the real thing as possible and that I can afford.

whats funny is, its 2013 and you would think that audio gear would be so life like that you wouldnt be able to tell live from recorded... TV and video have evolved but Audio is still catching up...imho of course :)

I grew up in a similar situation, my best friends father had a pretty nice Akai system, this is what sparked my interest in HiFi, I even bought the very same Akai amplifier they had about 5 years ago, and immediately sold it, yeah, it really didn't "cut the mustard"....
My parents had a very average locally made system with a Garrard 35SB Turntable, but it did have a Shure cartridge... that was my gateway into music and sound, so there are special memories around that, but I have no desire to find and buy that system....yeah, it would not be very satisfying to listen to I am sure....

I used to have pictures of Sansui's and Pioneers pinned on my wall in my bedroom when I was about 14 yrs, and one day I knew I would have some of these units....
And the day came when I did......but it was out of nostalgia and the current popularity Vintage has rather than the pure sound....Some of it was quite good, but compared to my current system, not quite good enough...

Then I repaired a McIntosh amp for a friend, and when I heard it during testing, I was like "eureka", thats more like it!! This is what I want!!
So I soon realized the McIntosh road was for me...I didn't want to give it back.

whats funny is, its 2013 and you would think that audio gear would be so life like that you wouldnt be able to tell live from recorded... TV and video have evolved but Audio is still catching up

You would be surprised at how life like it can be, my system is very much like that, it does exist but sadly, not in mid level receivers or integrated's of any brand....
I feel audio technology is always evolving, and it is way further down the track than I think you may be aware of.
Like digital playback for example, when I finally introduced a high end DAC into my system, I now listen to digital format much much more than before, digital in my system has a very "analogue" presentation with an insane amount of "reality" and "detail" while remaining creamy and seductive...
So, its out there, but in my opinion, it does indeed cost more than a few hundred bucks.....

To form an opinion on the "classic" McIntosh sound, you need a minimum, C32/33/34 pre-amp and a MC2205/ MC2255/ MC7270.....Or for tube MX110Z,and a MC240.....
If you can't afford to get into this level of McIntosh, then you may be better off going for a Rice Blower like a Pioneer or Sansui, at that mid level, I think they will always be better "bang for buck" than a McIntosh....
But by all means go for a low or mid level McIntosh, but just don't expect it to have the TOTL sound....it will be in the similar realm to what you have now...
And I think this is where these "Ive heard McIntosh and wasn't impressed" type comments come from...

I actually put my mouth where my money is, I took a punt and bought some great TOTL McIntosh gear, and I don't see myself needing to add or upgrade any time soon........
Yes it cost a fortune, but now I have it, and its the greatest sounding system I have ever owned and heard......Put a fork in me I am done....

I have actually stopped buying things now!! I no longer have the desire to look for the next greatest thing to add to my system....and that is a great thing indeed....
 
I liked the Sansui best of all the Japanese brands. I have owned Marantz and Pioneer but they colored the sound too much. My only kick against Sansui is that they are very hard to repair. Mid production component changes, misprinted circuit boards, poorly translated schematics, etc.

No problems like that now that I'm running a full Mac system. Get yourself a MAC 4100, it's the cheapest Mac out there, less collectable due to high production numbers and a distinctly non-McIntosh look. Check out Ebay, when there are several for sale at once you can score a bargain, I paid $480 for a beauty! If it's seperates you lust for, consider amps without "big blue meters". The MC2200 and MC2120 are (relatively) cheap. A MA 6200 can be used now and later as a preamp if you buy a power amp at a later date. Let us know what you decide!
 
While I am a Sansui fanatic and love their finest units, Sansui went down the tubes. Pioneer is not the same as it once was. McIntosh is the only HiFi make which still makes gear to the same standards as their legend was built on. How many other companies today will support and offer parts for something they made over 35 years ago? McIntosh not only does but stocks the parts, and has people around who know that product. Bryston is the only other company I know who has support anywhere near McIntosh and that level of support.
 
I had a Sansui au 717 and an au 919 in the 90s and sold them in the 90s at loss.
I had Pioneer, Marantz, JVC and Kenwood amps... and sold them one after another at loss (this was 6 years ago)..
Bought a mac rather cheap ( mc2300) that had a bad channel and had it fixed. Even the repair shop asked if I ever wanted to sell it....
I know I will not lose money if ever I need to get rid of it ( I say "need" as I have no intention to get rid of it)

I can really say that I liked all the Japanese amps I mentioned above (with a soft spot for the Sansui au 919) but since I picked up by accident a mac 6100 3 years ago (now used as a pre) my ears just love mac sound... Its neutral and pure IMHO.
This being said, its best to have a listen and let your ears be the judge!


I dont care if its ugly to some ( wife is NOT a fan of the "huge box" in her living room). Now if it sounds grainy as someone mentioned, maybe that machine needs a recap.
 
Hi guys,

I'm not what you would call an audiophile but I do have a deep appreciation for good sound and quality gear. I currently own a few vintage receivers.

Pioneer QX-949A quadraphonic receiver
Pioneer SX-838 receiver
Sansui 3000A receiver
Realistic STA-2001 receiver

and many more, but these are my fav's.

My question is, I've always seen that the hi end audiophile aficionado's like the McIntosh stereo gear in separates (amp + tuner) and the price for them is definitely 3x times as much as lets say a Pioneer receiver, but is the sound that much better? Now, I have never auditioned a McIntosh and am quite interested in adding one to my collection.

anyone?

Who was the best and why?
PRICE,PRICE,PRICE!:thmbsp:
 
In my collection right now I have;

Receivers:
----------
Realistic STA-2100
Pioneer QX-949a Quad
Pioneer SX-838
Sansui 3000a

I don't see how a 5100 is going sideways on any of these..? Try it, see if you like it -- if you don't it's cheap enough to flip without losing. :)
 
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