monkboughtlunch
Super Member
There's also a single grommet on the underside of the motor frame in the Papst "H" units. Pics below. So the Papst motors have a total of 3 grommets (2 on top and 1 on bottom).
ELAC Miracord TT -share all about 'em
- Thread starter illinoisteve
- Start date
There's also a single grommet on the underside of the motor frame in the Papst "H" units. Pics below. So the Papst motors have a total of 3 grommets (2 on top and 1 on bottom).
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
Has anyone tried a cartridge with a microline or shibata stylus on their Miracord to eliminate inner groove distortion? Is there even a cart on the market that would be an acceptable compliance match up for Miracord tonearms?
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
I figured out the issue. I'll post the solution later this weekend for folks that encounter the issue after they regrease the platter bearing.
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
Here's the fix if the tonearm won't return to the rest position after regreasing the bearing. After regreasing and reaffixing the large metal piece that holds the bearing, make sure the small piece with the arrow has play before tightening the screws. If you tighten down as is it will stick, you have to physically pull it forward before tightening down.
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
One oddity, after regreasing the bearings on two different Elac 10Hs, I noticed that if I have the spindle in repeat mode (i.e. spindle upside down), I have to press stop not once -- but now twice to stop it the table automatically. Prior to the regrease disassembly, both tables could would only need to have the stop button pressed once, when in auto repeat mode.
If you have regreased you Elac bearing, turn your spindle over and put it in the repeat mode. See if you know need to press stop twice to make it stop.
It must be something simple that causes this incorrect functionality. Anyone else experiencing this after disassembling for a bearing regrease?
If you have regreased you Elac bearing, turn your spindle over and put it in the repeat mode. See if you know need to press stop twice to make it stop.
It must be something simple that causes this incorrect functionality. Anyone else experiencing this after disassembling for a bearing regrease?
JesusGreen
Member
So it's been a while since I posted in here, but I posted a few pages back about the Miracord 660 that I picked up which had a specific issue: looping sections of each record. It would skip, but backwards rather than forwards.
The conclusion was that it probably needs a degrease and relube but since there's not a chance in hell I'd get the thing back together if I took the mechanism apart, it's just been sitting in the corner of my room untouched for some time now. I since bought a used Debut Carbon so I could continue listening without buying something that needed repairs.
I was also suggested to try lubing the cueing mechanism a little in case the arm wasn't being dropped low enough. I did that. I haven't since tested it to see if it helped since I haven't felt like fiddling around with it at the moment. I'll get around to that the next time I have the table set up.
...but today, just now, I was talking to my friend about old vintage turntables, and wanted to show them the Miracord 660 I had. I decided to grab some pictures from Google Images since they'd probably be better than ones I'd taken. When I was there, I noticed something. The cartridges. In all the images, the cartridges are very low in the headshell. There's probably at least an inch and a half, maybe even two inches of clearance between the headshell and the stylus in all the pictures.
...Whereas with my headshell, the stylus was maybe 1.5 centimetres below the headshell.
So my question is: Could this lack of clearance perhaps actually be a possible cause of my skipping issue? I mean perhaps the stylus is coming in at such a harsh angle that it's getting stuck on any dirt and being pushed back?
How do you mount a smaller cartridge in one of these headshells and get enough clearance? Do you need to buy spacers or something? And if so, where would I find suitable ones?
The conclusion was that it probably needs a degrease and relube but since there's not a chance in hell I'd get the thing back together if I took the mechanism apart, it's just been sitting in the corner of my room untouched for some time now. I since bought a used Debut Carbon so I could continue listening without buying something that needed repairs.
I was also suggested to try lubing the cueing mechanism a little in case the arm wasn't being dropped low enough. I did that. I haven't since tested it to see if it helped since I haven't felt like fiddling around with it at the moment. I'll get around to that the next time I have the table set up.
...but today, just now, I was talking to my friend about old vintage turntables, and wanted to show them the Miracord 660 I had. I decided to grab some pictures from Google Images since they'd probably be better than ones I'd taken. When I was there, I noticed something. The cartridges. In all the images, the cartridges are very low in the headshell. There's probably at least an inch and a half, maybe even two inches of clearance between the headshell and the stylus in all the pictures.
...Whereas with my headshell, the stylus was maybe 1.5 centimetres below the headshell.
So my question is: Could this lack of clearance perhaps actually be a possible cause of my skipping issue? I mean perhaps the stylus is coming in at such a harsh angle that it's getting stuck on any dirt and being pushed back?
How do you mount a smaller cartridge in one of these headshells and get enough clearance? Do you need to buy spacers or something? And if so, where would I find suitable ones?
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
Does it skip at a certain spot on all records? I recently had that skipping problem on my 10H. The way I fixed it was to make sure there was a 1mm gap space between the tone arm damper as per the Elac service manual (see service manual picture below).
My unit didn't have a 1mm gap. It was actually making contact while playing. The damper should only make contact when cycling (keeping the tonearm from bouncing around). However, when playing a record there should be zero contact with the damper. If there is contact while playing, it will drag on the tonearm and cause skipping.
I'm not familiar with the 660 model, but if it uses a similar mechanism, you may want to try this.
Look underneath and if the damper is touching when the tonearm is in the rest position, unscrew the two nuts (209 in the picture) and turn the screw so there is a 1mm gap (as noted in the diagram below) -- then tighten the two nuts.
Another issue that can cause skipping is the tonearm wire binding up and preventing the tonearm from fluid movement. Look underneath where the tonearm wire exits the tonearm and the wire travels to the muting switch. Make sure there is enough slack and the tonearm wire isn't "pulling" the tonearm backwards when the arm reaches a certain spot during play.
It's basically trial and error, but eventually you will find the cause and fix it.
Last edited:
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
Elac shipped the 10H with spacers for different sized cartridges. The instruction manual gave guidance and a photo showing how to determine optimal height for a given cart. I believe the needle should be just below the indented center of the platter where the record label is with the mat removed. One would adjust the 10H arm height to put the needle at that specific height. Not sure if the 660 had a similar set up. Download the 660 instruction manual if you don't have it.
JesusGreen
Member
Nope, it's not limited to any one spot. My most pristine records can sometimes get through a whole side without skipping, or maybe just the one part where it skips. Dirtier records loop/skip constantly throughout, like as much as 10-15 times per side. Each time the only way to get past the looping point is to lift the arm and set it down further into the record.
I'm intrigued, because I've played around with this. It absolutely was touching, there was no gap whatsoever. So I adjusted the two nuts at 209. They either make the spring looser or tighter, however, in both cases, it touches. You mention two screws that I'm supposed to tighten? I'm confused. I was just adjusting the nuts without touching any screws - maybe that's why it didn't help!
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
The two nuts just lock the long screw into position. In order to move that damping screw up and down you have to unscrew the two nuts. Then turn the screw so it creates a 1mm gap. Then retighten the two nuts to lock that height into place.
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
FYI - the two nuts on the damper screw were initially stuck in place. I had to use a hair drier and add a few drops of 3-in-1 oil to free them up. Once the nuts could be unscrewed, I could turn the main screw and adjust it to make the 1mm gap.
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
That was a typo. I was referring to the two nuts that should be tightened after the adjustment is made to achieve the 1mm gap. I fixed the typo in my post above.
JesusGreen
Member
Ah I think I get what I was doing wrong. I think I was just tightening or loosening the nuts without moving the screw up/down to adjust its position. I'm not sure, it's possible I did move it and try that, but I'll have to try that again the next time I have the turntable out.
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
Below is a 1964 Shure advertisement in which they market the Shure M-447 for the Elac Miracord. I'm running an M-447 on a 10H and I can confirm the cartridge performs well and is fun to listen to. With roughly 9.5mV output, it's a problem solver if running the table into an old tube preamp or receiver with low sensitivity.
Of course the M-447 isn't the last word in fidelity. The M35X is better (less harsh and boomy).
However, both these Shure conical styli don't perform that well with inner groove distortion and sibilance. Compounding the problem is that the Elac arms are a little shorter in length than the arms on non-changer turntables, thereby increasing the potential for tracing error.
I wonder how something like a microline Audio Technica VM540ML would perform in a vintage Elac Miracord changer. The 540 cart is the replacement cart for the AT 440. The 540 ups the optimal tracking force from 1.4 to 2.0.
While the VM540ML is probably worth more than most Elacs, it would be interesting to see how well it performs at 2 grams and to what extent the micro line styus mitigates or eliminates inner groove distortion and sibilance--letting the Elac Miracord design achieve its full high fidelity potential.
The question would be is the mass of the Elac arm (10, 40, 50 models) a compliance mismatch for the AT microline, or would it work fine? I've posted specs of the AT cart below.
Audio Technica VM540ML
Of course the M-447 isn't the last word in fidelity. The M35X is better (less harsh and boomy).
However, both these Shure conical styli don't perform that well with inner groove distortion and sibilance. Compounding the problem is that the Elac arms are a little shorter in length than the arms on non-changer turntables, thereby increasing the potential for tracing error.
I wonder how something like a microline Audio Technica VM540ML would perform in a vintage Elac Miracord changer. The 540 cart is the replacement cart for the AT 440. The 540 ups the optimal tracking force from 1.4 to 2.0.
While the VM540ML is probably worth more than most Elacs, it would be interesting to see how well it performs at 2 grams and to what extent the micro line styus mitigates or eliminates inner groove distortion and sibilance--letting the Elac Miracord design achieve its full high fidelity potential.
The question would be is the mass of the Elac arm (10, 40, 50 models) a compliance mismatch for the AT microline, or would it work fine? I've posted specs of the AT cart below.
Audio Technica VM540ML
Last edited:
For adjusting the damper, some miracords had a hole in the screw (threaded rod) you could put a small screwdriver or paper clip in, and you could move the plastic nuts up and down the rod, adjusting the damper space. (600 series I think ... it's been a while since I looked at one.)
oldmanstan
New Member
Jesus Green,
I am the fellow that had the same problem with the tonearm skipping, skimming or almost flying to the center of the LP on one of my BM 50H's. Upon checking and adjusting the gap above per monkboughtlunch mine still skipped across the record. It has to be the stylus and cartridge. I installed a brand new Shure M97xE and that seems to have cured the problem. I was very careful to align the cartridge with my alignment gauge, and I set the tracking force to 1.25 grams using a stylus scale and the anti-skate to 1.25. ( I think this is where the key to the repair lies. Use the scale and alignment gauge) It worked. I have played 3 LP's now and no skating to the center.
I was using an old Empire cartridge (at 3 grams tracking force, sometimes more when frustrated) for testing then I tried an old Pickering, it did not work either. (Maybe chipped or worn out stylus) I do not think you can trust the marks on the dials on these old units (use the scale). I was careful when installing the testing cartridges, but, not as careful as I was with the M97xE. Why a cartridge at 1.25 grams will track on the same test record that a 3 gram cartridge with an old old stylus would not, is beyond me. I also prayed to my guardian angel to help me, him or her has helped me fix 3 things in the past 40 years. I hope this helps you fix your problem.
I do not know if this will help you, but I am beginning to believe there may be some compatibility issues here.
Stan
I am the fellow that had the same problem with the tonearm skipping, skimming or almost flying to the center of the LP on one of my BM 50H's. Upon checking and adjusting the gap above per monkboughtlunch mine still skipped across the record. It has to be the stylus and cartridge. I installed a brand new Shure M97xE and that seems to have cured the problem. I was very careful to align the cartridge with my alignment gauge, and I set the tracking force to 1.25 grams using a stylus scale and the anti-skate to 1.25. ( I think this is where the key to the repair lies. Use the scale and alignment gauge) It worked. I have played 3 LP's now and no skating to the center.
I was using an old Empire cartridge (at 3 grams tracking force, sometimes more when frustrated) for testing then I tried an old Pickering, it did not work either. (Maybe chipped or worn out stylus) I do not think you can trust the marks on the dials on these old units (use the scale). I was careful when installing the testing cartridges, but, not as careful as I was with the M97xE. Why a cartridge at 1.25 grams will track on the same test record that a 3 gram cartridge with an old old stylus would not, is beyond me. I also prayed to my guardian angel to help me, him or her has helped me fix 3 things in the past 40 years. I hope this helps you fix your problem.
I do not know if this will help you, but I am beginning to believe there may be some compatibility issues here.
Stan
flasher1
Active Member
I am having a problem with a Miracord 40H that I just purchased and have tried everything I can think of to fix the issue. OK the lp is on the platter, I hit the 12" button, the arm lifts, moves over the lp, and lands at the correct spot. Then at the end of the side, the arm lifts and returns to the rest, but then starts all over and moves the arm the to the lead in groove and gently drops the arm and repeats and repeats and repeats. The turntable has the correct spindle installed, and it does the same thing with either the short single play or the multiplay spindle. If I hit the stop button once or twice, the arm picks up, goes to the rest and then starts all over again. I have had it apart for a clean and re-lube but it was doing this before I started cleaning it up. The main gear was removed and ultrasonic cleaned as were the main spindle bearings and everything lightly re-lubed.
I have the repair manuals, in English, but cannot find what adjustment affects a restart. I feel that something is just not latching up somewhere which allows the restart.
Any thoughts???? Maybe???? Hopefully??????
Thanks in advance.
Larry
I have the repair manuals, in English, but cannot find what adjustment affects a restart. I feel that something is just not latching up somewhere which allows the restart.
Any thoughts???? Maybe???? Hopefully??????
Thanks in advance.
Larry
monkboughtlunch
Super Member
Try turning the single play spindle over (opposite from the way you had it before) and re-inserting it. The way Miracord designed the short non changer spindle, if it was inserted one way, it played once and shut off. If the same spindle was turned over and reinserted, it would repeat ad infinitum. It was an intentional feature designed to allow for repeat play if desired.
juodaibalts
New Member
Hello fellow elac'ers 
I picked up an Elac Miracord 650 from a local market yesterday for next to nothing.
Mechanically it functions flawlesly, but the plinth is in poor condition.
So my questions is - is this TT worth the hassle of making a custom plinth? And if yes - maybe somebody has plans/outlines of 650 plinth?
I picked up an Elac Miracord 650 from a local market yesterday for next to nothing.
Mechanically it functions flawlesly, but the plinth is in poor condition.
So my questions is - is this TT worth the hassle of making a custom plinth? And if yes - maybe somebody has plans/outlines of 650 plinth?
