ELAC Miracord TT -share all about 'em
- Thread starter illinoisteve
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pmsummer
simul justus et peccator
The Lab 60 (ELAC) is a queer bird. It's a 'hybrid' TT, belt drive plus idler wheel. Also, the plinth is sprung very lively. Very lightweight construction, not at all like the 10/40/50 Miracords.
tom3
Super Member
50H mounting
Here's the template, had to piece it together and not to any scale, sorry. And the instructions. (I'm not so hot at scanning etc.)
Here's the template, had to piece it together and not to any scale, sorry. And the instructions. (I'm not so hot at scanning etc.)
Attachments
Angler
Well-Known Member
Template
I made a copy of my 770H template for a member but it was a PITA to do. Mostly because I didn't know what I was doing and then it had to be taped together because I could only print a quarter at a time.
Anyway, I can ask the print shop what it cost to print full size versions of it if enough of y'all want a template for the base.
Just a thought.
Al
I made a copy of my 770H template for a member but it was a PITA to do. Mostly because I didn't know what I was doing and then it had to be taped together because I could only print a quarter at a time.
Anyway, I can ask the print shop what it cost to print full size versions of it if enough of y'all want a template for the base.
Just a thought.
Al
fondofmusic
Active Member
Total novice here when it comes to terms or repair abilities. I just know what I like when I hear it. Funny that I got a great old Elac H 50 like new with that same wooden lid type case at a charity auction here a couple years back. I really messed up because they had about five auctioneers going and before I knew it they started to sell the stereo equipment from the rear of one of the pavilions. No one would bid on the odd wood box which turned out to be the Elac. I hadn't a clue either. Sadly the very fine amps, speakers and reel to reel tape with literally a hundred unopened new recording reels of tape went for a few dollars as well. Still I lugged the Elac home, not even knowing what it was. It was so heavy I liked to never got it to the car parked a few blocks away.. To my amazement I hooked it up to my small stereo set I use when walking in the basement of my moms next door, and when I put on a record instantly I knew it was not something like I had heard before.. The sound was much larger and detailed. No service, no nothing, just ran like it should have. The only big downfall was the "hum" I see discussed here. After a couple years and no access to repair persons I have forced my self to at least attempt to clean up the mechanism and grease the unit along with a Dual 1009 that I also happened to get at the very same time. The Dual had begun after shipping it for service twice, not shutting off and would endlessly cycle till I would unplug it. I figured it was though. But I gave it a try and removed it from the case, cleaned it up again and looked it over. I discovered a tiny copper "switch" I would say, up near the bottom of the the metal plate that rode around the large operating cogs. On that was a tiny dark spot. I took my little screw driver and scraped it off, some old grease I would say, it now shuts off like new.. So much for my first lesson.
Back to the Elac. I cleaned it up yesterday and now it no longer sticks when traveling the records as it did sometimes. Dirty grease I would say. But that darn hum is ever present if you even get near the turntable, running or not it puts a hum in the amp and speakers. You can just touch the metal cart its sitting on and it will respond with a hum. The hum is apparent when the brush touches the stylus when it shuts off as well. It seems also to be dependent on the volume level. The lower the volume the less the hum is, but when you turn the set up to get loud passages that are impressive the hums increases very noticeably..
I am hoping that someone here can in very plain english give me some hints as to how to proceed. I am quite leery of the little wires behind the cartridge. I have never changed one out due to that. I looked at these and they are full of that whitish corrosion and the tiny wires look almost like they are crammed together. I wouldn't have any idea how to remove them and clean them and get them back in place without breaking them? Also I have read in some online sources including this one that the cables to the amp phono input were an issue with these sometimes. If I put on new cables of a decent quality would that possibly be the issue? I don't know if they just unplug on the bottom of the H 50 or if they are soldered there, un-plugging I could manage but not sure about soldering tiny connections.
As has been frequently mentioned I see no ground and I have read I think on this site that grounding can either not work or cause issues?
My Dual 1009 is also very fine, but the original Elac cartridge out plays it by a long shot in my book. Although I know that hearing is subjective to who is doing it. Its smaller and takes less room and is very quite as well, no hums from it. I really got the dual looking for something that would handle 78 albums well. Neither the dual or elac is really good at dropping them. They are much to heavy for the tiny spindles and the slightest wear on the center hole prevents them from dropping right, often knocking the tone arm off the record in the process of tilting to one side or the other. I really need a good reliable table that holds the heavy records from the side, but getting yet another unit and hoping for good sound an reliable working is remote it seems.
A great group here, hope to get some understandable advice on what to do with that hum..
Larry
Back to the Elac. I cleaned it up yesterday and now it no longer sticks when traveling the records as it did sometimes. Dirty grease I would say. But that darn hum is ever present if you even get near the turntable, running or not it puts a hum in the amp and speakers. You can just touch the metal cart its sitting on and it will respond with a hum. The hum is apparent when the brush touches the stylus when it shuts off as well. It seems also to be dependent on the volume level. The lower the volume the less the hum is, but when you turn the set up to get loud passages that are impressive the hums increases very noticeably..
I am hoping that someone here can in very plain english give me some hints as to how to proceed. I am quite leery of the little wires behind the cartridge. I have never changed one out due to that. I looked at these and they are full of that whitish corrosion and the tiny wires look almost like they are crammed together. I wouldn't have any idea how to remove them and clean them and get them back in place without breaking them? Also I have read in some online sources including this one that the cables to the amp phono input were an issue with these sometimes. If I put on new cables of a decent quality would that possibly be the issue? I don't know if they just unplug on the bottom of the H 50 or if they are soldered there, un-plugging I could manage but not sure about soldering tiny connections.
As has been frequently mentioned I see no ground and I have read I think on this site that grounding can either not work or cause issues?
My Dual 1009 is also very fine, but the original Elac cartridge out plays it by a long shot in my book. Although I know that hearing is subjective to who is doing it. Its smaller and takes less room and is very quite as well, no hums from it. I really got the dual looking for something that would handle 78 albums well. Neither the dual or elac is really good at dropping them. They are much to heavy for the tiny spindles and the slightest wear on the center hole prevents them from dropping right, often knocking the tone arm off the record in the process of tilting to one side or the other. I really need a good reliable table that holds the heavy records from the side, but getting yet another unit and hoping for good sound an reliable working is remote it seems.
A great group here, hope to get some understandable advice on what to do with that hum..
Larry
Does the Elac have a ground lead? Is it hooked up t your amplifier? if so, have you tried unhooking it? What you describe sounds like a ground hum, but sometimes with different cartridge and table setups it works better hooked up and other times it works better unhooked. If there is no ground lead, try cleaning the connectors that go to the back of the amp and see if that helps any. Pulling and cleaning the connections at the back of the cartridge is also a good idea. I use a small screwdriver and carefully pry under the edge to get them loose, then use small needle nose pliers on the metal connector part to pull them free. Just be careful with it, and you should be OK.
The only really good 78 rpm changers are all side pusher mechanisms. Stuff like the Garrard RC80, RC88, RC98, or Type A are what you're after. Short of that, you should have good results with the single play spindle on either the Dual or the Elac in place of the drop spindle. Also, I'm assuming you're aware of the need for a different stylus (needle) with 78 rpm records right? Those have much wider grooves, and if you try and play a 78 with a stylus intended for a 33 or 45, it will ruin it.
The only really good 78 rpm changers are all side pusher mechanisms. Stuff like the Garrard RC80, RC88, RC98, or Type A are what you're after. Short of that, you should have good results with the single play spindle on either the Dual or the Elac in place of the drop spindle. Also, I'm assuming you're aware of the need for a different stylus (needle) with 78 rpm records right? Those have much wider grooves, and if you try and play a 78 with a stylus intended for a 33 or 45, it will ruin it.
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fondofmusic
Active Member
Yes I purchased from Germany the original Elac 78 stylus for it. The Dual I finally got a 78 stylus milled to the correct larger size from France though a dealer in florida. The Elac one I got from a website on the net which was in germany. I was a bit surprised that they still had them.
I think in the past I tired to clean the rca parts without any results. I read somewhere that the type of cables or plugs Elac used at that time were sometimes prone to causing trouble. It has no grounding screw and from what I read here shouldn't need one most likely. The noise is mostly when you touch some part of it or the arm touches something like the brush or the sit down stop and the record when it lands..
I do use both of them for single 78 play, but I would like to have automatic drop ability. I hate the thought of trying to find a reliable Garrard or others, my luck with buying rebuilt or repaired items is almost zero over many years.
One thing that has caused me to pause on the wires at the rear of the cartridge is that you really can't get under there well to see what your doing. The arm only lifts a short distance then stops. I know my old magnavox which was basically a junker, the arm lifted completely up in the air so access was at least somewhat easy.
Larry
I think in the past I tired to clean the rca parts without any results. I read somewhere that the type of cables or plugs Elac used at that time were sometimes prone to causing trouble. It has no grounding screw and from what I read here shouldn't need one most likely. The noise is mostly when you touch some part of it or the arm touches something like the brush or the sit down stop and the record when it lands..
I do use both of them for single 78 play, but I would like to have automatic drop ability. I hate the thought of trying to find a reliable Garrard or others, my luck with buying rebuilt or repaired items is almost zero over many years.
One thing that has caused me to pause on the wires at the rear of the cartridge is that you really can't get under there well to see what your doing. The arm only lifts a short distance then stops. I know my old magnavox which was basically a junker, the arm lifted completely up in the air so access was at least somewhat easy.
Larry
Don't the Elacs and Duals have a removable headshell or cartridge carrier that allows you to get at it? I've never worked on either one, so I'm just shooting in the dark here but I know the Dual 12 series had a sled, and my Garrards have all either had a sled or removable headshell.
fondofmusic
Active Member
Shows what I know, I would have said it wasn't removable but in checking the copy of the manual someone sent me I see that it may slide out of the arm! I will have to check that it would make matters at least simpler for sure.
One thing too I noted that early on in this thread the version with the all wood lid and base was thought to be an aftermarket purchase since it had no Elac markings. Well mine has the Elac name right up front on a long brushed aluminum strip at the top of the lid front. Its also got a black strip painted over the very top edge of the front lid lip which the name strip is under then another black strip about an inch off the very bottom of the case front. Looks pretty original to me?
One thing too I noted that early on in this thread the version with the all wood lid and base was thought to be an aftermarket purchase since it had no Elac markings. Well mine has the Elac name right up front on a long brushed aluminum strip at the top of the lid front. Its also got a black strip painted over the very top edge of the front lid lip which the name strip is under then another black strip about an inch off the very bottom of the case front. Looks pretty original to me?
Angler
Well-Known Member
The hum from the Elac 50H is most likely caused by the lack of a ground wire. I have a 770H which has a ground wire and I'm almost sure that your 50H should have a ground also. Lack of a proper ground will make a table hum most of the time and you should look into attaching a ground to that table. That is more than likely your problem.
I could be wrong but I've never heard or read that a ground wire on a turntable would cause it to hum and have read many times that the lack of one will cause it to hum.
That's the first thing I would do before messing with the headshell wires.
Al
I could be wrong but I've never heard or read that a ground wire on a turntable would cause it to hum and have read many times that the lack of one will cause it to hum.
That's the first thing I would do before messing with the headshell wires.
Al
Angler
Well-Known Member
Elac Miracord 50H hum
This was bothering me so I looked it up and found I was way wrong about the 50H having a ground wire because it doesn't. I am so glad I joined this site for all the knowledge found here.
I'm going to try to add the thread I found on AK about the 50H that might help. I've never tried this so I can't say if it will work because I'm not very good with computers (or turntables either).
Well, I can't drag the thread over here so I'll just write it and hope for the best.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=426782
Al
This was bothering me so I looked it up and found I was way wrong about the 50H having a ground wire because it doesn't. I am so glad I joined this site for all the knowledge found here.
I'm going to try to add the thread I found on AK about the 50H that might help. I've never tried this so I can't say if it will work because I'm not very good with computers (or turntables either).
Well, I can't drag the thread over here so I'll just write it and hope for the best.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=426782
Al
Took a bit of wiggling but finally got the one out from my 45
Cleaned up the contacts on both ends, plus the wire & cart connections, and RCAs. One channel that was weak - fixed with a little minor cleaning w/Deoxit.
A JVC (QL-Y7) is my main, and the 45 is secondary duty for LPs that are not in better condition.
fondofmusic
Active Member
Thanks for the suggestions. I did venture to "pull" out the headshell for the H 50. It has really tiny delicate wires compared to the one above. A bit scary but I did as the other fellow suggested and took a tiny screwdriver and slowly pushed them loose enough to move a bit, then a tiny set of needle nose pliers to ease them off their pins. They didn't really look too bad but I did the best I could with a 0000 steel wool to buff the pins. I was wondering if there was some kind of spray that would clean them will have to look up the one suggested. I tend buffed the set of snap in connectors in the arm and on the head. In looking at the wires in places they were either touching or almost so. I used a tooth pick to just make a space that one could see between those places. Then I took steel wool to the two rca plugs cleaning the best I could inside of them. They did appear to have a slight film an a bit heavier on a couple of the outer cover portions. I also looked under the turn table but could see nothing I was willing to try to work on there. I did trace the lines for the audio output but they did not have any plugins on the TT side I could detect so I didn't consider trying to replace them..
When I put it together at first I only got sound from one side.. I was worried I may have damaged one side or the other of the little wires or the RCA parts But after looking carefully at both again I discovered that in my haste to set up the stereo yesterday I had used a rather short line to one speaker. In moving the amp around one wire had pulled out of the speaker.. thus no sound. That was a relief. Once it all was working I tired listening and while a slight sound was heard when the turntable was touched, nothing like before. Also when the stylus hits the record or the brush and set down rest it is almost not heard where before it was quite obvious and disturbing. I am satisfied now that I have learned something new at 70 years. Gratifying to be able to at least make small improvements to items I had never considered working on. One other thing I notice is that when I first had the Elac 78s were painfully noisy sounding due to surface noise. The Dual 1009 is much more forgiving. But this time of having it hooked up the Elac is also not bringing out the excessive surface noise either? Not sure which thing could have effected that but something did? Possible that the cheaper sony speakers I am using temporarily aren't bringing that out like the Klipsch set I have does.
I will shortly try to get a photo of the unit with the wooden cover and name plate.
Larry
When I put it together at first I only got sound from one side.. I was worried I may have damaged one side or the other of the little wires or the RCA parts But after looking carefully at both again I discovered that in my haste to set up the stereo yesterday I had used a rather short line to one speaker. In moving the amp around one wire had pulled out of the speaker.. thus no sound. That was a relief. Once it all was working I tired listening and while a slight sound was heard when the turntable was touched, nothing like before. Also when the stylus hits the record or the brush and set down rest it is almost not heard where before it was quite obvious and disturbing. I am satisfied now that I have learned something new at 70 years. Gratifying to be able to at least make small improvements to items I had never considered working on. One other thing I notice is that when I first had the Elac 78s were painfully noisy sounding due to surface noise. The Dual 1009 is much more forgiving. But this time of having it hooked up the Elac is also not bringing out the excessive surface noise either? Not sure which thing could have effected that but something did? Possible that the cheaper sony speakers I am using temporarily aren't bringing that out like the Klipsch set I have does.
I will shortly try to get a photo of the unit with the wooden cover and name plate.
Larry
Bauhausler
Rational Subjectivist
I messed around with my 50H today. Installed a very old Shure M91E body with a new EVG .2 X .7 stylus. I cleaned the contacts on the headshell, cartridge and arm with Caig D5 on a cotton swab. For the insides of the wire clips I use a toothpick. A pair of 90 degree tweezers works great for handling the wire clips on the pins.
All I've done with this 'table is tinker with it. It works fine and is complete and in good shape but I just don't have a use for it. It has a very high dust cover so I assume there must once have been a changer spindle for this. I admit to being very ignorant about it, as it came with a vintage system and I didn't pay much attention to it when it arrived at the house years ago.
I guess I should read more of the posts in this thread and learn something!
All I've done with this 'table is tinker with it. It works fine and is complete and in good shape but I just don't have a use for it. It has a very high dust cover so I assume there must once have been a changer spindle for this. I admit to being very ignorant about it, as it came with a vintage system and I didn't pay much attention to it when it arrived at the house years ago.
I guess I should read more of the posts in this thread and learn something!
