ELAC Miracord TT -share all about 'em

let's talk Elac spring suspension foam:

Could anyone share information and/or pictures of what Elac used inside the four suspension spring mounts?

On both my Miracords (50H & 770H), this foam has long since perished and turned to orange dust.

The motor-board is far too springy without any shock absorption, so I'm thinking of improvising another solution. I'd like to see the way it was originally designed...


That is a great question. I only recently had the nerve to remove mine from the mount and I too saw those orange foam looking pieces inside the springs on two of the mounts.. I wondered if they were just fallen apart or what they were. I wonder if anyone has a replacement for this product.. Now if I could only find the hum when you touch the parts, its not awful but rather noisy when the arm sets down on the brush.. I also see in the manual that the audio cables are supposed to have an RCA type plug on both ends? I wonder if some may have not had that but been direct wired as I looked to see if I could easily replace mine with a better set thinking they might be part of the hum issue. When I looked at the wires the seemed to go into the electrical section as if they were hard wired on that end, but I may not have looked closely enough.
 
That is a great question. I only recently had the nerve to remove mine from the mount and I too saw those orange foam looking pieces inside the springs on two of the mounts.. I wondered if they were just fallen apart or what they were. I wonder if anyone has a replacement for this product.. Now if I could only find the hum when you touch the parts, its not awful but rather noisy when the arm sets down on the brush.. I also see in the manual that the audio cables are supposed to have an RCA type plug on both ends? I wonder if some may have not had that but been direct wired as I looked to see if I could easily replace mine with a better set thinking they might be part of the hum issue. When I looked at the wires the seemed to go into the electrical section as if they were hard wired on that end, but I may not have looked closely enough.

Early in this thread it is suggested that more often or not the source of hum on many Miracords originates in the headshell.
This was indeed the case for my 50H.
Start back at the beginning of this thread and re-read the posts.
You should find some good advice there.

Somewhere I had read that generally speaking any open celled foam would work as a replacement in turntables where the foam in spring suspension points had deteriorated.

However it seems to me that the purpose of foam used inside springs would be to dampen the movement of the springs (like the coil-over shock absorbers on automobiles) and keep the top plate and platter from bouncing around like a jack-in-the-box whenever you walk past your turntable.

The conclusion I draw from this is that if your turntable is properly isolated from footfalls and other sources of vibration the foam isn't really necessary.

I know the Thorens suspension is different, but this passage from the Analogue Dept raises an interesting point about the desirability of leaving foam inserts in place :
"foam is in contact with both the fixed stud and the spring simultaneously, it serves to transmit resonance from the motor plate into the sub-chassis. By removing the foam, isolation is improved. ".

Modification to many Lenco heavy platter turntables often include tightening the top plate tightly to a heavy plinth so that the springs no longer play a part in isolating the turntable.

Anyone have any informed insights or opinions on this?
Foam or no foam?

Art
 
Somewhere I had read that generally speaking any open celled foam would work as a replacement in turntables where the foam in spring suspension points had deteriorated.

However it seems to me that the purpose of foam used inside springs would be to dampen the movement of the springs (like the coil-over shock absorbers on automobiles) and keep the top plate and platter from bouncing around like a jack-in-the-box whenever you walk past your turntable.

The conclusion I draw from this is that if your turntable is properly isolated from footfalls and other sources of vibration the foam isn't really necessary.

I know the Thorens suspension is different, but this passage from the Analogue Dept raises an interesting point about the desirability of leaving foam inserts in place :
"foam is in contact with both the fixed stud and the spring simultaneously, it serves to transmit resonance from the motor plate into the sub-chassis. By removing the foam, isolation is improved. ".

Modification to many Lenco heavy platter turntables often include tightening the top plate tightly to a heavy plinth so that the springs no longer play a part in isolating the turntable.

Anyone have any informed insights or opinions on this?
Foam or no foam?

Art

I believe the foam is necessary. I have my turntable on its original wood plinth, sitting on felt feet, on an isolated slab of marble, sitting on an isolated wood shelf. The motorboard does not wobble because of human movement or other sources in the room. It wobbles because of movement within the turntable itself. For instance, when the turntable is playing and if there is any minor warp in the record, I can see, upclose, the motorboard wobbling ever so slightly. I can stop that wobbling by gently wedging my fingers between the motorboard and the plinth - a function the original foam provided, surely.

This is the issue I want to resolve.
 
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Does anyone know if the small pin out of the bottom of the wand or 45 changer part is a unmoving part that is just fashioned into that lower ridged part? If so it might be possible to get a machine shop to drill out the old one on mine and had a new pin the quarter inch or so that the wand part has. I am assuming that has to do someway with the auto shut off. It doesn't seem to me to be something that is moveable upward into the stem but I am not sure exactly what function that little stem performs.
 
I think the foam functions differently in turntables like the Miracord, where the springs support the table above them so the springs are compressed, and in suspended subchassis tables like the AR, Thorens and Linn where the springs are in tension, and the results of removing the foam might also differ. So I wouldn't necessarily think that doing something recommended for one type would be applicable to the other. But the more I think about it, the less confident I am about why.
On the other hand, I think the logic of bolting down a Lenco to a massy plinth is transferable to Miracords, Duals and other idler changers. The flimsy plinths they came with are clearly only justified by cost considerations -- shipping a massy plinth would only be justified if there were some clear numerical specification that were improved enormously by adding mass, and when these tables were being built, that consideration wasn't in the spec list -- not that it is now, either..
 
Stem

Does anyone know if the small pin out of the bottom of the wand or 45 changer part is a unmoving part that is just fashioned into that lower ridged part? If so it might be possible to get a machine shop to drill out the old one on mine and had a new pin the quarter inch or so that the wand part has. I am assuming that has to do someway with the auto shut off. It doesn't seem to me to be something that is moveable upward into the stem but I am not sure exactly what function that little stem performs.

My 770H long play changer spindle looks just like the bottom of that 45 changer spindle so I imagine they work very much the same. That pin can be pushed up into the spindle and it's some type of spring loading. It pushes up quite a bit and I didn't push it too hard for fear of breaking something. I think my spindle can be taken apart from the top but I haven't tried it and I won't unless I have too but I would think your 45 spindle should come apart somehow. I don't see any way to fix that without taking it apart from the top.
 
I will have to take another look at that, the wand I have I pushed on the pin but it didn't seem to want to move, but I guess I didn't push it hard enough? The 45 does have some screws that look like it would open to expose the mechanism with a few parts removed. Not sure since I am prone to break things if I should attempt to taking it apart or just put up with it at this point.. It is at least changing the records.
 
Yeah, I would just put up with it too. Like I said, I wouldn't want to take my long play spindle apart unless I had to and those 45 changer spindles are much more rare.

I had to put the pin against my bench and push it in because it's way to hard to push with my fingers because it's so small. It's not real hard to do if you have something besides your finger to push on.

Good luck with that. I've been keeping my eye's peeled for one of those for quite awhile.

Al
 
Okay, is the hum electrical or mechanical?

I too was plagued with a hum when ever you touched any part of the turntable or arm, even putting in the spindle when changing records caused a thump and noises.. Not noticeable when running though.. However a few weeks ago I finally got the nerve to get under the thing and clean some old grease off and put on new as well as light oiling of the points that required it. Nothing special but I have noticed that off and on now it has stopped being touchy when you contact parts on it.. I can tap the spindle, tap the turntable or arm and nothing. Maybe the next time it shuts off it will return to being touchy.. I am wondering as I always have about what exactly calls for the turntable to shut off being sensitive as it leaves the records. In cleaning it I noticed the two rather long skinny metal contacts that ride either side of the track, one was pretty close to touching its resting place, or as closed as it would probably get give a hair. I nudged it slightly apart so that it wouldn't make a contact, I wonder if that is the part that should be shutting it off till the arm is back in motion. I have been surprised though that now at times the hum is gone.. Any ideas on what does control that?

Larry
 
Just picked up this Elac Miracord 10 (no H) today, already in love. Funny thing, no ground wire, but zero hum through the Kenny Supreme 600. :scratch2:

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Love it!

In my opinion, the 10/10H is the most beautiful Miracord

It does have that je ne sais quoi. Been listening for a few hours, closest comparison I can make is to a Dual 1019. Has that same "fullness" to the sound. Sold all four of my Duals, but this baby's a keeper!
 
Downloaded the (German) service manual, appears there was an optional preamp board! Two transistors/channel. Would that have been for the European market, using a DIN connected amp?
 
Those 10's are beautiful. I had an opportunity to pick up a 10H not long ago and passed on it. Still regretting that decision.

Al
 
Have had a Shure M97xe sitting unused in its box since Amazon had them at a super low price a year or two ago. Time to try it out on the ELAC. Wow! Great match so far. Up way past my bedtime listening, sounds so good. :music:

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Just picked up this Elac Miracord 10 (no H) today, already in love. Funny thing, no ground wire, but zero hum through the Kenny Supreme 600. :scratch2:

Probably grounded through the shield on one of the RCA jacks. I've seen a couple of tables like that.

Very attractive example of the model 10! This thread constantly reminds me that I need to finish lubricating my 45H and get the idler wheel redone.
 
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