Fisher 400-CX-2 Has A New Home!

[notdigital]

I thought I'd never do it. Well, never say never!!!

I'm just going through the initial inspection and it seems like it has had very little, if any, work done on it, happily. The seller did advertise that it had the switch rebuilt and I could see that has been very nicely done. Because the tubes it came with weren't worth their shipping weight, I re-tubed it from my stash, brought it up on a variac since this morning, and fired it up using the power amp of a NAD receiver. So far the tuner circuit works as does Aux 1. Aux 2 had a very anemic left channel so I let it run unattended for an hour or so and that cleared it up. So far, only a couple of things are bugging me.....

Nothing I could do about it but some prior owner was a bit too aggressive in trying to clean the chassis. I suspect an abrasive buffing brush of some sort was used to clean the surface. It is obvious due to the scratches that clearly cut through the surface.

Another thing is that there is no serial number! I looked through a loop and see no evidence of a stamped number; nor do I see any indication that one was stenciled on.

Finally, for now, in addition to the face plate being much heavier than the plates of the receivers, pre, and tuner that I have, it looks like it has been heavily lacquered. I don't know if that is a factory detail or a "fix" by a prior owner. From what I've read, there was a lacquered brass faceplate, and a brushed (I believe plated) aluminum one for this model If someone can put me at ease on this detail, either way. I'd appreciate it.

While the unit came with a wooden case, it was not the correct cabinet. Since my new baby doesn't seem to need much electrical work, I think I'll spend these last warmish days on the table saw building a proper cabinet. To that end, does anyone have actual dimension front to back? I can figure out the rest.

That's it for now. But let me give a big shout out to xbart for providing the missing shields. Again, many thanks!!!!

 

[larryderouin]

Not; If the Front panel looks like lacquer was brushed on, it probably was......by a previous owner. I know of no faceplate made by or for FISHER that ever had a brushed on finish. Depending on the formulation of the aluminum used the color could be from silver looking to medium/dark gold toned. As this faceplate is the Aluminum extrusion I'd say the lacquer was sprayed on after the lettering was applied. The additional lacquer that was brushed on is a owner mod to keep from further damage. No serial # stamped with hammer punches? OH WOW! You've got the Missing Link!

Measure from the back edge of the faceplate to the back edge of the chassis. Add 1" for overhang on the back. This will be for the basic box, which you'll add the trim to. The Front will sit inside the front trim. If the lip on the trim is 1/2" deep, add that to total. Say for example the depth is 12" from the back of the faceplate to 1" past the chassis back edge. Then add the 1/2" trim lip to the total for 12-1/2" depth. That will give you a little fudge factor if you don't like the back edge sitting 1-1/2" past the chassis and you can cut down appropriately.

According to the 400-CX owners manual the bottom plate is 14-3/8"W by 10-3/8"D not including the flanges. So adding the examples 1-1/2" to overall will give you 11-7/8" including the trip lip, and 11-3/8" not including the trim lip. This is presuming that the CX-2 has the same dimensions.

 

[audmod01]

NotDigital;

The heaviness of the front trim plate indicates that it is solid brass. The grooves at the top and bottom edges are identical with the ones on the front trim plate of my 202-R, which is definitely brass. They do tend to corrode which is likely why a previous owner applied clear lacquer over it. Using a brush does not result in the best appearance. It would have been better to have used a lacquer spray instead. As long as it does not offend your sense of aesthetics, I would just leave it as is. It is possible to remove the lacquer but then you might run the risk of removing the silk-screened lettering on it.

On some chassis that I have dealt with the serial number had pretty much been removed by previous cleaning efforts. I was able to faintly make out the serial numbers by viewing the surface at an angle with a light positioned just right to make the area where then numbers were originally visible. It takes some experimentation to get everything set up just right in order to view the numbers. If they really scrubbed everything, it may not be possible to see them at all.

Good luck with your restoration efforts!

Joe

 

[dcgillespie]

I share Audmod01's opinion -- To me, the face plate looks like the heavy solid brass plate that Fisher used transitionally between the earlier stamped plated brass face plate (think X-101ST), and the later brushed aluminum pieces. Not a lot of units got these face plates, but Audiodon's X-1000 did, and I've seen a few tuners that did as well. Another thing that was common with the solid brass face plate units: Knobs with brown inserts -- a carryover from the last knobs used with the stamped plated brass face plate units, yet still before the transitions to knob brights.

Nice unit! I've got to believe that the serial number is well worn off, or just stamped well out of location.

Dave

 

[Dave451]

Agree--nice unit! The 500B I had looked very much like it had lacquer applied to the face plate. Not brushed, evenly applied and the face was quite gold in color.

 

[notdigital]

Re the face plate, this is what I came across by sgmlaw who drops in here occasionally:

https://www.audioasylum.com/messages/vintage/9413/re-fisher-400cx-2-as-good-as-the-50c

So it looks like I have the brass/lacquered version. Too bad about the coating. Maybe I'll consider some ultra fine wet/dry paper to smooth out the speckles. I mean, they're not terrible....just annoying in an OCD kinda way. I'll also dig further into the serial number mystery. Quite frankly, I just don't see it. On ALL of the chassis that have come across my eyeballs, zero have escaped recognition. Even allowing for the aggressive cleaning, I don't see any hint of a number. Not a single digit. I'll continue to look and see what I find.

Thanks folks....this is gonna be fun!

 

[notdigital]

Well looks like I spoke too soon: Clippy was indeed here before!

Firstly as to the serial number: I guess it will forever remain a mystery. Looking at the area under magnification and under better light revealed nothing. The tarnish that remains leaves me to believe that if there was a number there, it was rubbed off long ago. I was hoping to date this thing but I guess that won't happen. Maybe some other number will pop up, perhaps on the tranny but we'll see.

Also pictured is the repaired switch. As I mentioned, not a bad job. Left the armored cable hanging but nothing that can't be corrected.

The electrical tape was a dead giveaway to prior work. Luckily only the cloth sheath was damaged and a little nail polish cleaned it right up.

Now lastly, the most egregious fix: I don't believe the diodes are connected correctly. As you can see, the brown wire from the transformer is left unconnected. I think one of the diodes should make a connection there; the other connections look correct.



Interestingly the unit seems to be performing as it should but perhaps the voltages are off. Once I blow up a schematic I can begin testing voltages and checking for drifty resistors. My plan is to be as conservative as possible in replacing stuff so as to retain as much value as possible seeing as a lot of collectors want unmolested pieces. Then again, who the hell knows what I'll think next week. We'll see......

 

[dcgillespie]

Looks like the correct AC switch was used to replace the old one, but it was replaced in such a way as to not have to tear down the control to do it. An interesting approach that likely works just fine -- but clearly a shortcut to doing the job.

Assuming that there wasn't a problem with the section of winding that the brown lead connects to, then one of the diodes does in fact need to be connected to the brown lead as you surmised. Connected as is, is very hard on the power transformer, which you'll find runs plenty warm even when connected correctly!

Dave

 

[notdigital]

Late last night I had some time to look into the diode connections again and yes, per the schematic, the brown tranny wire does connect to one of them. It appears that those diodes are ancient replacements. In an effort to figure out why the brown wire was bypassed, I made the correction and intent on taking some voltage readings I powered 'er up. Damn thing wouldn't turn on! I flipped it right side up and, guess what? Turned on! Flipped it back over and, well you guessed it: wouldn't turn on!! Arghhhhh!

Long story short: it's the switch. It's simply not seating tightly enough to the pot housing. I took the switch apart to find the contacts are fine. Some experimentation led me to the seating problem. Apparently the slight change in orientation of the unit prevents a proper contact. Next step is to clean up all the solder blobs to achieve a tighter fit. And yeah, properly seat it with the tabs installed as designed. Could be worse I guess.

Back to that brown wire and the tranny: it's fine. Voltages are pretty close to schematic values so I'm relieved that it was simply Clippy's mistake. Since I'm there already, I want to replace those diodes. Would 1n5402's be OK? I have some laying around.

 

[dcgillespie]

They'd be perfect. That is what I retrofitted in to my President preamp. What was in mine when I first received it were previously retrofitted 1A diodes that between the 0.6A current draw of the heater load and the ripple current that diodes also have to pass, made them run hotter than a fire cracker. The new diodes run nice and cool.

Glad the transformer is good, but now it's out with the volume control to properly install the switch......... In striving for like-new operating condition with vintage equipment, it's always something, isn't it?

Good luck with the switch re-install!

Dave

 

[notdigital]

They'd be perfect

Thanks Dave.

Glad the transformer is good, but now it's out with the volume control to properly install the switch......... In striving for like-new operating condition with vintage equipment, it's always something, isn't it?

So long as whatever pops up is manageable it's all good. At least the family knows where to find me

 

[larryderouin]

GOOD IDEA! Then you're not at the corner bar, drunk off your a**, and picking up hookers. And 3 days later you'd be seeing me for a shot to take care of the drip...........OR WORSE!!!

 

[vendo81]

Congrats on the 400cx2. Looks like you found an early one!

 

[vendo81]

They'd be perfect. That is what I retrofitted in to my President preamp. What was in mine when I first received it were previously retrofitted 1A diodes that between the 0.6A current draw of the heater load and the ripple current that diodes also have to pass, made them run hotter than a fire cracker. The new diodes run nice and cool.

Glad the transformer is good, but now it's out with the volume control to properly install the switch......... In striving for like-new operating condition with vintage equipment, it's always something, isn't it?

Good luck with the switch re-install!

Dave

Good information Dave. Looks like I need do do some Diode swapping in my two units. I have some 1N5408's on hand I can use.

 

[notdigital]

GOOD IDEA! Then you're not at the corner bar, drunk off your a**.....

 

[ivan100000]

Congratulations on your new 400cx-2!

 

[notdigital]

Congratulations on your new 400cx-2!

Thanks Ivan!

And as a consumer service announcement......

In an effort to restore this pre as original as possible, I purchased some jewels at auction, advertised as "original jewels" coming from a Fisher unit. Since these things come up very infrequently, and since the CX-2 is worth every effort, I paid close to the asking price. Upon arrival my suspicions were immediately triggered. In all defense to the seller, the jewels are probably the best replacement jewels I've seen. However, IMHO, they are not original. Very good for sure, but highly unlikely to be original. The immediate giveaway is the smaller peg. Secondly, the material has gas bubbles, a clear indication of imperfect casting. I've attached pictures showing two original green jewels next to one of the purchased replacements. All three replacement jewels are shown in the second picture. You decide.

 

[AlTinkster92]

Not, there's a guy on the auction site that's selling these and claiming they are original, I almost bought a set myself. I compared the beveling on my X202B's jewels to the auction listing and indeed are not original.. He wants a fortune for all his offerings. Al

 

[notdigital]

After several weeks of listening to this pre I can say I am very impressed. Everything seems to be stable. The only things that needed immediate attention was a scratchy volume pot (after the on/off switch issue was corrected,) the top hat diode replacement, and the the bias can that ran hot to the touch. It was restuffed with new nichicons. I'll be eyeballing at least one of the other multi-cap cans for a refresh although all the voltages are pretty on spec and the can is cool to the touch. Famous last words, as usual

 

[notdigital]

I finally got off the lazy train and got back to thinking about restoring this beauty. As I was pouring over pictures of the guts of other units and comparing to that of my own, I was seized by panic: I had no PEC's hugging the selector switch!!! Did Clippy heave them?? I calmed down after I realized that my version CX-2 had discrete components unlike what is shown on pretty much all the available schematics for this unit.

Now I realize that Fisher made slight modifications to the RIAA over time and those changes are pretty well documented in Dave's Phono Preamp thread. But, for the life of me, I can't make sense of what is in my unit:



As I landmark, I finally located a 1800pF ceramic sandwiched between the wafers of the switch. Paralleling that cap is a 1m resistor met at the terminal tab by a 150k resistor and another ceramic @ 750pF (I believe.) Other than the 1800pF ceramic, all these values are way off from what I found in my 400c and what appears in the schematic PEC. Am I looking at this correctly and if so, what do I change????