Fisher X-100 sounds better with just one turntable

Discussion in 'Fisher' started by beatcomber, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. beatcomber

    beatcomber AK Member

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    I have an early (1959) brass-face X-100, which has two phono inputs: 100k (phono 1) and 50k (phono 2). I had been using both inputs for two turntables (using loading plugs with phono 1 to lower the resistance).

    The other day I removed the table from phono 1, and you know what? It sounds significantly better with just a single turntable connected. Greater frequency extension on top and bottom, greater clarity, and a more vivid soundstage as well. It may possibly be a little louder too. What a nice surprise!

    Presumably in 1959 the designers didn't expect that consumers would own two turntables, they just wanted to offer more versatility.

    I'm guessing that the second turntable was putting an extra load on the circuit. Can any of you more tech-savvy folks confirm?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. gadget73

    gadget73 junk junkie Subscriber

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    You're not using mag 2 and high level as the inputs are you? That would change how it sounds. I can't see why using mag 1 and mag 2 at the same time would affect each other.

    Mag 1 would show a 100K load to the cartridge, Mag 2 would show a 44K. They'd certainly sound different.
     
  3. dcgillespie

    dcgillespie Fisher SA-100 Clone Subscriber

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    If Phono 1 and Phono 2 are front panel switch selectable, then having different TTs connected to each input at the same time should and could make no difference, unless the switch and its wiring are compromised. However, if they are based on loading options only for a single phono input selector switch setting (not switchable), then having two tables connected at the same time would definitely make a difference.

    Dave
     
  4. beatcomber

    beatcomber AK Member

    Messages:
    17,668
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    Curious.

    Yes, I am using Mag 1 and Mag 2, not the Hi Lev input.

    Could the loading plugs on Mag 1 be affecting Mag 2? I suppose I should do an A/B comparison with and without the the second turntable hooked up.
     
  5. gadget73

    gadget73 junk junkie Subscriber

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    The schematic doesn't show that they would but its not impossible someone has been in there with the golden screwdriver.
     
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  6. beatcomber

    beatcomber AK Member

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    17,668
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    This is all very curious.

    Some possible explanations to consider...

    When I removed the second turntable, which was on the upper shelf of a rack, I moved the Fisher up to the top, so now it gets more ventilation. Before it had open space on the sides, but about 4" clearance on top. Could that have an effect?

    I also placed the Fisher on a marble cutting board weighing probably 20 lbs., which is on a cherry Salamander rack shelf. Could the more rigid marble surface be controlling resonances that significantly?

    Or maybe it's all just my imagination... I'll have to plug the 2nd turntable back in and see if I still hear a difference.
     
  7. larryderouin

    larryderouin Do I get Food, Med's, or more gear this Month? Subscriber

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    I think you're reading too much into the changes (moving the amp to a higher shelf, and the marble shelf.). I would expect a slight change for the better in resonances from the marble than moving the unit to a cooler area but nothing possibly as drastic as you're thinking you're getting.
     
  8. beatcomber

    beatcomber AK Member

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    Yup, I'm grasping at straws here.
     
  9. larryderouin

    larryderouin Do I get Food, Med's, or more gear this Month? Subscriber

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    It might be that the loading with 2 turntables connected OR with one connected and one plugged(shorting plugs) is too much and the gain becomes too small. Leave off the plugs from phono and put them on Tape Head instead as you'll never use that source unless you use a TEAC 4000 R2R tape player WITHOUT the RA-40S amp.) The output's of the A-4000 come directly from the Tape Heads, to the RCA's. Then using a RCA Cable to TAPE HEAD input on the FISHER allows you to use the FISHER's PHONO/TAPE PREAMP with the NAB (TAPE) Equalization by way of the EQ switch on front set to Tape. (**)
    ScreenHunter_109 Sep. 13 23.21.jpg

    Combining the TEAC 4000 player with the RA-40S amp becomes the A 4010 Tape Deck and then would be connected to the Aux or Tape Monitor for playback, and the REC-OUT for Recording. The RA-40S has the NAB EQ circuit built in so no extra preamp circuits are needed by plugging it into the Tape Monitor/AUX.

    The versatility back then was about using different cartridges, even ceramic with different loading characteristics. You could use a Source control box so you could use 2-3 different tables on one RCA set. I would do this rather than trying to have multiple TT's plugged into the X-100. It can be safer too as some of the box switching have positive lockout's where pushing 1 would kick out the rest making sure they are disconnected.

    Larry

    (**) A lot of Tape Decks (R2R) back in the 50's and somewhat into the 60's had direct connections (RCA's) to be used directly to a preamp, Integrated, or receiver with TAPE HEAD source with NAB EQ. This was very common then and by the 70's was petering out as Tape Recorders became more prevalent. Also the NAB EQ is slightly different from the RIAA EQ in that Mid's and Highs are a little more pronounced plus a little more gain (maybe 2-3 or more db). Try the EQ Switch on Tape while playing a record, but don't switch it while playing the record. If you stop in the middle it gets extremely loud even faster than it is loud. The difference is noticable, but you may like the difference. Try both ways.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017

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