guitar 15" speaker or hi fi speaker?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by jeffhamman, Jan 8, 2012.

  1. jeffhamman

    jeffhamman Active Member

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    Location:
    Northeast,OK
    Looking for a good 15" speaker for using with my 25 watt push pull tube amp 6l6 intended for hi fi,of course I know I need a high efficient one. but what about wattage rating,Can you give me a rundown on specs I need to look for. What is the difference in Guitar and Hi fi?, I am building vented cabinets or possibly open back cabinets and am plan on using a horn for a 2 way system. Nothing fancy just a 30X24 box Any brand or specific speaker I should look at? used or new?
     

     

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  2. donprice

    donprice Wound up workin' at a gas station.... Subscriber

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    It really depends on what you are looking for. Hi-fi implies an accurate speaker. Guitar speakers are often horribly inacurrate but that gives them a characteristic tone that is what you are looking for...or not.

    I assumed you wanted something for a guitar amp but you mentioned a 2-way. Are you planning on playing music or guitar? Budget? What is the rest of the 2-way?
     
  3. jeffhamman

    jeffhamman Active Member

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    Nofor hi fi not guitar

    No Im building cabinets for hi-fi using a 25 watt 6l6 monoblocks. Looking at the jensen c15n. but this is considered a guitar amp.
     
  4. sreten

    sreten Super Member

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    Lokk

    Hi,

    for hifi 15" units are genarally not a good idea, unless you are careful.

    http://www.pispeakers.com/contents.html
    Seem the sort of thing you are after, not really my cup of tea.

    rgds, sreten.
     
  5. jeffhamman

    jeffhamman Active Member

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    Location:
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    wattage?

    Ok Ive looking at one of the peavy black widow 15" rated at 99db spl.Ok what about the wattage handling rating. I thought I was looking for something about 50-100 not 350 watts. How big of factor is this?
     
  6. ev13wt

    ev13wt Super Member

    One 15 inch or 12 inch speaker will sound kind of dull most of the time. Its not really meant to do high tones.
     

     

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  7. johnr66

    johnr66 Well-Known Member

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    Guitar drivers typically have a high Fs (resonate frequency) and low mass cones to produce high SPLs but with poor low bass response. Don't fall into the trap that you you must have the super high efficiency speakers. I used to think this too. You can build a nice set of speakers around the 92 db range that will sound great and should be plenty loud with 25 watts.

    If you really want to go high efficiency and get good low bass, look at something like a tapped horn design.

    Edit: I guess I should ask what frequency response are you after? You did say hifi...
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2012
  8. bowtie427ss

    bowtie427ss arigato gozaimashita Subscriber

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  9. frankxbe

    frankxbe Super Member

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  10. cubby01

    cubby01 aka Buck

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    Jeff, if you are going 15" woofer, you are most likely (but not necessarily always) going to need a 3-way speaker system to get full hi-fi range; woofer, mid, and tweet.

    If your intention is to use it with the amp you mentioned then you basically stated the wattage requirements up front. Needs to be capable of handling 25watts - maybe throw in some additional for comfort. If the speaker is capable of handling 200 watts and it meets all your other design criteria then it's not likely to hurt anything. (And as a matter of fact it can go the other way; may people get away with running speakers with stated low wattage on high wattage amplifiers. The key is that the watts are clean without distortion, and a little common sense is used regarding the volume knob.)

    Lastly, PP 6L6 will produce plenty of output. You don't *need* to get into the ultra high efficiency speakers unless you are trying to fill huge rooms with really high volumes.
     
  11. jeffhamman

    jeffhamman Active Member

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    Location:
    Northeast,OK
    thanks for the advice

    Ok I plan to run vintage ev horns with my 15" but want to keep it 2 way I will be running a singe end 6bq5 amp for the treble.The 6l6 will just drive the bass speaker. I have been running a very heavy Magnavox 15" with stiff surround and a 50oz magnet along with the magnavox amp148 per side=(my avtar)up till now- these a mono put out 40 watts in biamp. but are nearly 55 years old.Im not getting a very good bass response. want to experiment with a new cabinet and newer technology speakers.
     

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  12. cubby01

    cubby01 aka Buck

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    Cool, then for you right now it sounds like experimentation. How are you managing the crossover and eq between the woofer and the EV horns? ...Hmm, seeing the amp148 in your avatar, have you been using the onboard xover? I believe it's crossed at about 1k hz. What will you do for the 6L6 amp?

    With whatever woofer you end up going with you are going to need to put it in an enclosure with the correct volume (and/or tuned port) in order to get the best level bass response for that particular driver. If you have just tossed your old magnavox 15" drivers into any old box (expecially a closed box) then bass is likely to suck. Magnavox did a pretty good job of getting the speaker systems in those old consoles to sound good. Note that that old woofer was probably in an enclosure with an open back or a back full of holes. Nearly open baffle. That's where they shine. Enclose them and they lose it. (yeah, I made some assumptions, I don't know what your drivers came out of.)

    So how do you know what the currect box size (and/or port) you need? You get the Thiel/Small parameters for the driver. For example the ones for the Peavey Black Widow you mentioned above are found here -> http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/misc/blackwidow.cfm
    ... then you use some speaker design software like WinISD (free, just search) to come up with the correct box size. Or, if you have a box already, you can plug those dimensions in and get a graph of the bass response and cutoff.
     
  13. DaveElton

    DaveElton A Whiter Shade Of Pale

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    Jeff, just another alternative, (although much more expensive than the Peavey woofer) Is something I do in a "mono" setup that I run occasionaly. I have a vintage 1959 JBL 4.5cu' cab that I put a modern JBL "E-130" 15" "Extended range" driver in. I have several horn tweeters that I have experimented with over the years, in various styles, capping them to run with the E-130, and generaly get very satisfying results, and hi-efficiency on a lot of music.
     
  14. jeffhamman

    jeffhamman Active Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Northeast,OK
    Magnavox

    Great info, Yes I the cabinets I use are vintage magnavox twin cabinets,I just gutted them and added the bigger amp and woofer, My tweeter horn lays on top of the cabinets.total open backs,I have educated myself to run open backs, but had a 1960 concert grand that uses these speakers in a sealed box enviroment.Does not sound much different. Thats why I would like to build some cheap 3/4 plywood boxes.What do you guys think of vintage EV stuff, Like the SRO>how did they rate efficiency in the old days? I guess Im trying to build a cheap altec knockoff more or less
     
  15. jeffhamman

    jeffhamman Active Member

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    Jbl e130

    Wow. I just check the specs on that one... 105db.This maybe what I need. So I should not be concerned about the 300 watt rating. Again Im only running 25. Somehow I used to think the rule of thumb is you double your amp power and get a speaker rated in that area?Are you using a sealed box or open back with these.
     
  16. DaveElton

    DaveElton A Whiter Shade Of Pale

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    Trust me Jeff, at just 1 watt that E-130 will put out copious amounts of sound:music: Any low powered quality amp will do just fine "IF" you do not run it into clipping. You could damage that 300 watt capable E-130 in minutes or less running a small amp into clipping ... With 25 watts available, I would guess your hearing would go before you clipped it though :) The 1959 JBL Signature cab I have for the 130 is a vented box. :)


    Oh, one edit, although that JBL is a 15" and has a huge frame and mag structure, it is not a "low-bass" 15 " driver. He will do great on guitar, and most music, and pipe organ I have run thru mine is suprisingly good, just dont expect "floor-massaging" bass. That being said, everything is very "clean" sounding :)
     

     

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  17. Gudstufshevy

    Gudstufshevy Art

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    Location:
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    Much has been said about using guitar and or PA drivers for Hi-Fi. Rather than try to talk you out of it, I thought you might benefit from others who have already tried it.

    1) we expect Hi-Fi drivers to sound good at any relative output volume. Typically not the case with guitar, or PA applications. These usually like to be driven hard, and have a "sweet spot" at or near high volume.

    2) Guitar speakers have an inherent "tone", desirable for that stratocastor sound. Usually less desirable when it flavors vocals with the same tone.

    3) guitar and PA drivers are intended for producing sound, not reproducing sound. There are differences in the design of the voice coil, and motor structure. Compromises primarily for purposes of cooling and high output capability.

    Generally PA drivers will perform 'better' than a guitar driver in an application like yours, but may still need to be quite loud to sound "right". This might be fine for a party system, but will likely seem very 'fiddly' at low volume. As you'll likely be trying to dial up some bottom end. Bi-amping improves matters considerably.

    Good luck with the project, keep us posted.
     

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