Hands on: Technics SL-1200/SL-1210 MK7 review

[cafe latte]

BS. I can reliably measure Wow, Flutter or W&F down to 0.002% with my W&F meter.

You don't seem to understand that quoting a W&F figure generated from the FG coil is perfectly valid. It includes the platter and very accurately represents the true rotational stability of the turntable motor/platter assembly.

It was done by pretty much all the top TT makers because they quickly realized (in the 1970s) they had perfected the direct drive system and the limiting factors were the variables they couldn't design for. So, they excluded them.

You cannot get an accurate W&F once you start including the arm, its associated bearings, the test record and the cartridge. Those variables absolutely swamp the true rotational performance of the motor/platter.

JP and I measure TTs often (yep, crazy guys we are) and with high quality Quartz PLL DD decks, the majority of the the speed aberrations contributing to any measurable W&F in correctly operating TTs, are from the record, arm and cartridge, not the motor/platter. With belt drive TTs, the opposite is mostly true, it comes from the motor, bearings, belt and platter interface.

It is not the JIS figure, the JIS is 0.1 not 0.01 this is the point some want to miss for some reason.
Chris

 

[91r100gs]

David. Do you like the Pioneer table you own?

I presume the answer is “yes” - if so, why do you give one single care about others opinion of it, regardless of specs???

Just enjoy it, man! You don’t need anyone’s approval but your own.

I owned and LOVED my KAB mod’d sl-1200 in the era of absolute disdain for it in the audiophile community and could of given absolutely two $#!+s about others opinions. Thank God! Still love it to this day....

It is what I do regarding my much criticized VPI Traveler Ver.1
6 years in, the horrible tonearm which falls out of the gimbal pins for everyone ever made is a total piece of trash. NOT
In reality it has been a superb TT. Quiet, extremely speed stable, the tonearm is rock solid, and most of all I LIKE IT.

 

[restorer-john]

...It is not the JIS figure, the JIS is 0.1 not 0.01 this is the point some want to miss for some reason...

There's IIRC, the JIS standards, IEC 386/98, CCIR 409-3 and DIN 45507. There's weighted and unweighted. W&F meters switch between the various weightings and standards and combinations. Here's a shot of mine:



Technics have always quoted JIS WTD as far as I recall and also the FG generator output. WRMS (JIS C5521) which considers the entire system. The 'W' stands for weighted.

This is the SL1200mk2 service manual specs



What Pioneer are doing doesn't really matter. They have zero credibility using Hanpin produced turntables with performance numbers likely plucked out of the air. Clearly, it was 0.1% for a year or two in their specs (we all saw it), then they decided to just make it 0.01% for their 'specifications'. With nobody out there actually confirming these numbers, they could print anything and get away with it. Stereophile seem to have forgotten what test equipment for TTs is and use a stupid meaningless 'app', so it's left to guys with proper test gear and the last few non-eccentric test records to see what sense we can make of it.

At least with Technics, we know their TOTL TTs are checked on a Meguro 668G W&F meter on their way out the door. Notice, they are using 3KHz, which is JIS/WRMS NAB, not the 3.15KHz which is IEC DIN/CCIR. Watch that video carefully at that 2:30 point, you will see the frequency jump to 3.002KHz. That is 0.07%...



http://www.keisoku.co.jp/md/english/product/category/category_04/mk668g_eng.html

 

[theophile]

There'll have to be a real big quality shake-up at Hanpin, before we'll ever see a 'Making of the Hanpin *****' video. That's something they'd rather we weren't privy to. Something they loathe being exposed.