High End System Building on a Budget

TubeHiFiNut

Super Member
One of the things that seems to be a misconception with High End Audio is that you have to spend five figures or more to play.

Personally, I think that, with careful system building, it is possible to put together a system that is true to our working definition of High End without depleting your bank account and/or ending up in divorce court.

To reiterate, we are working with the following (very fluid) definition:

High end components are designed with the goal of reproducing the sound of live, unamplified music in the home. Recreation of the soundstage and dynamics of the original performance across a wide frequency range are a priority with midrange fidelity having the highest priority. High end components can be vintage or current and price is not a consideration, only fidelity to the music.

There are lot's of AK Members who have been playing with Hi-Fi for many years and have owned a wide variety of components throughout the price spectrum.

So, let's put the creativity and experience of AK to work. For those who care to play:

1. Total system price must be <$9,999.99.

2. Assemble a system of components, new or readily available used, including source(s), amplification (separates or integrated), speakers, ICs and speaker cables.

3. Use retail new or ebay used (two normally worst case scenarios) to determine total system price. Simple DIY (speakers only) is OK as long as someone like me with ten thumbs could complete the project.

4. In keeping with our definition, fidelity to the midrange (where most of the music resides) has the highest priority.

5. These should be components that you have either owned, own now or have had extensive exposure to listen to over time and in familiar surroundings.

6. Please keep this thread a 'No Flame Thread' and keep all comments and discussions positive and informative.

I'll leave this post as-is and post my entry on a subsequent post.

My goal in starting this thread is to link the pool of experience here to newer members who may be looking for how to best build their system.

Thank you in advance for playing. :)
 
Well, if there is luck involved it can be done. My best stuff, which might be mid-fi, is the Altec A7/MR994s which cost $250/pair, a Denon DP57L DD turntable with Denon 301MkII MC cart which cost $60 and a Lentek MC stage which cost $4.00. All were estate sale/auction/CL finds.

The Altecs have the required killer mids :yes:

I guess that leaves me about $9,686 to play with?? :D
 
This is what I spent on all my gear

Denon POA 1500 - $50
Denon PRA 1000 - $250
Denon DP 51F - $250
Onix SP-3 - $700 - including some new tubes
Denon 103R - $250
KEF R300 - $650
KEF R400B - $900
Bogen B62/Lenco L70 - $380
KEF Q100 - $450
KEF Q600c - $300
Harman Kardon AVR - $140
Asus Xonar essence stx - $150
8audio interconnects about $120 with shipping

$4590

Some dumb luck and screaming deals here (KEFs - Both speakers and Sub were half priced or less on the used market - pretty new speakers, so a great deal and the Denon POA 1500 - which I and the seller were both convinced was broken when I bought and I intended to try and fix... But then it just started working and has never given me an issue since).

The actual value of the system would probably be much higher than what I've paid.
I have quite a few other components but they are going to go into the systems of other people... Pay it forward..

I mixed and matched my surround sound system using cheaper KEF Q series.. They're a very similar driver configuration. Added some dynamat to the insides of the cabinet.. pretty seamless for movies... For5.1 channel music i can tell the center is a little thinner than the mains.. but i only have two 5.1 DVD audio disk. So no biggie.

The only thing I bought new was the KEF Q100 and they were refurbished from accessories4less=

All of this is what it's in my main system. Except lenco and cables that are being shipped.
 
Last edited:
I think it can be done even using ebay pricing.

Quad ESL57 (rebuilt pair from Quads Unlimited) $3,600/pr
Naim Nait 5 (ebay pricing) $1,000 or Heathkit AA-151 (ebay pricing) $400
Analog:
AR XA turntable or Lenco L70 (ebay pricing) $400 - $500
Shure M44-7 or AT 95E (Amazon pricing) $50
Digital:
Laptop running Spotify $500
Schiit Modi Uber DAC (Amazon pricing) $179
Canare Coax ICs, Home Depot 12ga solid core for speaker cable. $200

Total estimated cost:$5,329 to $5,929 depending on choices.

I have listened, at length and in my home, to the Quads driven by a Naim Nait I owned (another one I'd like to have back) and my Heath AA-151. Either amp is synergistic with the ESL57 and the combinations honor the midrange. Bottom line: you could live with this system.

If the budget allows, go for either a Denon HOMC or (my choice) a Denon 103 with either a SUT or headamp.

The upgrade path would be to tube separates and definitely the DL103 with SUT.

This system reflects my listening biases and, as always, YMMV. :)
 
Start with the speakers. Get a used pair of Magnepan 3.7R's for (~$4K) a new Odyssey Audio Stratos Stereo Extreme ($1800) power amp (they are IMO one of the best buys that exist) a new Oppo BD105D ($1300) and a used Conrad Johnson PV-12 ($1400). That's ~$8500. Spend the rest on some music.

The PV-12 allows for the addition of a TT with the addition of a suitable TT and phono stage.

I did it this way because I realize many do not want or use a TT.
 
Start with the speakers. Get a used pair of Magnepan 3.7R's for (~$4K) a new Odyssey Audio Stratos Stereo Extreme ($1800) power amp (they are IMO one of the best buys that exist) a new Oppo BD105D ($1300) and a used Conrad Johnson PV-12 ($1400). That's ~$8500. Spend the rest on some music.

The PV-12 allows for the addition of a TT with the addition of a suitable TT and phono stage.

I did it this way because I realize many do not want or use a TT.

Well done!

You are absolutely correct that many will choose to go digital only.

You can sure tell where my listening biases reside. ;) :)
 
As an addendum:
I would get the IC's and speaker cables from 8Audio. That would still leave you with a couple of bucks for some music.
 
One of the things that seems to be a misconception with High End Audio is that you have to spend five figures or more to play.

Personally, I think that, with careful system building, it is possible to put together a system that is true to our working definition of High End without depleting your bank account and/or ending up in divorce court.

To reiterate, we are working with the following (very fluid) definition:



There are lot's of AK Members who have been playing with Hi-Fi for many years and have owned a wide variety of components throughout the price spectrum.

So, let's put the creativity and experience of AK to work. For those who care to play:

1. Total system price must be <$9,999.99.

2. Assemble a system of components, new or readily available used, including source(s), amplification (separates or integrated), speakers, ICs and speaker cables.

3. Use retail new or ebay used (two normally worst case scenarios) to determine total system price. Simple DIY (speakers only) is OK as long as someone like me with ten thumbs could complete the project.

4. In keeping with our definition, fidelity to the midrange (where most of the music resides) has the highest priority.

5. These should be components that you have either owned, own now or have had extensive exposure to listen to over time and in familiar surroundings.

6. Please keep this thread a 'No Flame Thread' and keep all comments and discussions positive and informative.

I'll leave this post as-is and post my entry on a subsequent post.

My goal in starting this thread is to link the pool of experience here to newer members who may be looking for how to best build their system.

Thank you in advance for playing. :)


Well, here's mine:

Speaker System: KEF Reference 102 Monitors (w/KUBE) -- $900.00 (New)(1988)

Power Amplifier: Adcom GFA-545 MkII -- $300.00 (Used -- eBay)(2000)

Preamplifier: Adcom GFP-750 Active/Passive Line Stage -- $1,250.00 (New)(2000)

FM Tuner: Magnum Dynalab FT-101 -- $600.00 (Used -- eBay)(2000)

Universal Player: Oppo Digital BDP-95 -- $800.00 (Used)(2013)

Phono Stage: PS Audio GCPH -- $1,000.00 (New)(2010)

Turntable: Thorens TD-160 (Original) -- $250.00 Plus Shipping (Used -- eBay)(2011)

Tone Arm: Jelco SA-750D -- $600.00 (New)(2011)

Phono Cartridge: Sumiko Blue Point Special EVO III -- $500.00 (New)(2011)

I/C's: MITerminator 2 -- $720.00 -- 6 Pairs (New)(2000)

S/C's: MITerminator 2 -- $300.00 -- 1 Pair (New -- Single Wired)(2000)

System Total: $7,220.00

--Charles--

P.S.: Between 1989 and 2000, I have used an NAD 7225 Stereo Receiver (as a Tuner/Preamplifier) and a B&K ST-140 Power Amplifier as interim components before changing over to the Adcoms. I have also used an NAD 5255 Compact Disc Player before upgrading to a Pioneer Elite PD-65 before replacing the Pioneer Elite PD-65 with the Oppo BDP-95.
 
Last edited:
TubeHiFiNut, with God as my witness, I could not POSSIBLY agree with you more than I already do about Quad ESL '57s. :yes:

These speakers are truly something very special. It's really too bad they stopped making them in '84 or so. People who look down their nose at "old stuff" would just shut up if they heard mine. They would just SHUT UP! They'd be too entranced to do anything but listen... If anyone's heard a pair without being bowled over, something wasn't right, that's all I can say.

I also agree that budget high-end is very doable, with care, patience, and good judgement, and perhaps some luck. Finding a pristine, museum-quality pair of Quads was an example of the latter. My current system comes in just under your limit:

Quad ESLs, used $1500
Promitheus TVC, new $580
Marantz TT-15/Clearaudio Virtuoso, new $1500
Fosgate Signature, new $1750
Luxman A3000 tube monoblocks, used $2000
Marantz SA-15S2 SACD, new $1400
Cables $600 (Goertz M1, Audioquest King Cobra)

I'd put it up against anything, repeat ANYTHING, regardless of price. It might be beaten, but never embarrassed.

Limitations are the last octave of bass response, and maximum sound pressure levels, but the funny thing about the volume is that I just don't miss it. I bet I hear more at 70 dB than most do at 90 dB.

The components that I'd recommend the most (besides the Quads) are the Promitheus TVC (transformer volume control) passive preamp, and the Marantz/Clearaudio turntable/cartridge, for the money. I love the phono preamp too. I can recommend the Luxman tube amps for sound quality, but not for reliability, unfortunately. A Hafler DH-220 will drive the Quads just fine, for ~$200 used.

More here (where nobody reads it) plus pictures, if anyone's interested:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=8886071&postcount=106

I can also recommend a less expensive system, the one I got back into the hobby with:

Magneplanar MMGs, new $600
Apt-Holman preamp, restored $400
Hafler DH-220 power amp, used $180
Denon DP-1200 TT, used $250
Denon DL-103 cartridge, new $150
Denon AU-300LC SUT, new $260
Hsu STF-2 sub, new $360
Rega Apollo (original) CD player, used $400
cables $200

Total $2800. Not sure this qualifies as "high end", but it was very, very satisfying. The Maggies will need room, out four feet from the wall. If you can do that, they are the biggest new speaker bargain I know of.

Good thread, thanks!

:music:
 
My current system fits this bill. I have a lot of other gear that puts me over the top, but if we are just counting my main system as it currently sits, I'm in under the $10k limit.

- Woody

The first price is retail, the price in brackets is what I paid from various sources.

Well Tempered Simplex - $1999 ($1395)
Well Tempered DPS-1 - $450 (Above)
Dynavector 20X2L - $950 ($350)
Dynavector P75 MK2 - $850 ($400)
Teac PD-H600 - $999 ($580)
Schiit Bifrost with Uber Analogue Stage - $420 ($280)
Job Pre 2 - $1699 ($1325)
Job 225 - $1699 ($1200)
Clear Day Double Shotgun Cables - $450 ($275)
Salk Songtowers - $2850 (with outriggers and Salk upgrades) ($1720)
Clear Day IC's x 4 @$160 - $640 ($300)
Signal Cable Silver Phono Cable - $140 ($60)
Job Sweetcord - $299 ($200)
Shunyata Venom 3 source x2 @$80 - $160 ($90)
Shunyata Venom 3 Power - $150 ($100)
Mac Mini w/SSHD - $750 ($300)
AOC Monitor - $100
VPI 16.5 RCM - $650 ($450)
Herbies Brass Gliders - $140 (Included with speakers)

Total at Retail: $15,495
Total Paid: $9265
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    65.8 KB · Views: 137
... And mine even includes my record cleaning machine! Here's a pic before it was all hooked up but you can see my bamboo Salks.

- Woody
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    68.9 KB · Views: 208
TubeHiFiNut, with God as my witness, I could not POSSIBLY agree with you more than I already do about Quad ESL '57s. :yes:

These speakers are truly something very special. It's really too bad they stopped making them in '84 or so. People who look down their nose at "old stuff" would just shut up if they heard mine. They would just SHUT UP! They'd be too entranced to do anything but listen... If anyone's heard a pair without being bowled over, something wasn't right, that's all I can say.

I also agree that budget high-end is very doable, with care, patience, and good judgement, and perhaps some luck. Finding a pristine, museum-quality pair of Quads was an example of the latter. My current system comes in just under your limit:

Quad ESLs, used $1500
Promitheus TVC, new $580
Marantz TT-15/Clearaudio Virtuoso, new $1500
Fosgate Signature, new $1750
Luxman A3000 tube monoblocks, used $2000
Marantz SA-15S2 SACD, new $1400
Cables $600 (Goertz M1, Audioquest King Cobra)

I'd put it up against anything, repeat ANYTHING, regardless of price. It might be beaten, but never embarrassed.

Limitations are the last octave of bass response, and maximum sound pressure levels, but the funny thing about the volume is that I just don't miss it. I bet I hear more at 70 dB than most do at 90 dB.

The components that I'd recommend the most (besides the Quads) are the Promitheus TVC (transformer volume control) passive preamp, and the Marantz/Clearaudio turntable/cartridge, for the money. I love the phono preamp too. I can recommend the Luxman tube amps for sound quality, but not for reliability, unfortunately. A Hafler DH-220 will drive the Quads just fine, for ~$200 used.

More here (where nobody reads it) plus pictures, if anyone's interested:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=8886071&postcount=106

The nice thing about the Quads is that the low level resolution is so good that you don't have to turn them up to open up the performance so you can listen into the music.

That and they convey the emotion of the performance beautifully.

I can also recommend a less expensive system, the one I got back into the hobby with:

Magneplanar MMGs, new $600
Apt-Holman preamp, restored $400
Hafler DH-220 power amp, used $180
Denon DP-1200 TT, used $250
Denon DL-103 cartridge, new $150
Denon AU-300LC SUT, new $260
Hsu STF-2 sub, new $360
Rega Apollo (original) CD player, used $400
cables $200

Total $2800. Not sure this qualifies as "high end", but it was very, very satisfying. The Maggies will need room, out four feet from the wall. If you can do that, they are the biggest new speaker bargain I know of.

Good thread, thanks!

:music:

I am pretty familiar with the MMGs and agree that, with the right source and electronics, they can definitely give you a glimpse into the kind of sound you normally have to pay a lot more to achieve. In fact, I pretty much had the same system, just with MG II speakers, a different CD player and no sub. It really sounded good. :music:
 
I built each of these two systems a few years ago and I've probably learned more from them than any of the others I've assembled. Some of these components have been sold off for better or I still have them but just don't use them much anymore, but in these rigs they were certainly making a positive contribution. I suppose these two systems would've (for the most part) been considered reference level in the late 70's/early 80's...with some upstream electronics that may well eclipse the tech that was available at the time.

Probably had around $3.5k in this one...

Windows Laptop >
Monoprice 12' USB >
Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 >
Cardas SPDIF >
Musical Fidelity M1 DAC >
AudioQuest Ruby >
Tube Audio Designs TAD-150 tube preamp > >>
AudioQuest Ruby >
Tube Audio Designs TAD-60 power amp (biased for single ended triode with Gold Lion KT-77's) >
Blue Jeans Belden 5000UE>
Altec 19's (recapped)

>> distributed bass (crossed over at 70Hz)
Rane AC23 active crossover >
Phase Linear 700B >
(2)"Bucket Sub" (stereo, front wall)

(2) Dayton SA-240 plate amp
(2) DIY sealed sub, 1.5 cuft, 12" Dayton Titanic Mk III (mono, rear wall)

Furman PL Plus conditioner/power strip
Grant Fidelity PC 1.5 on DAC
Pangea AC14SE on preamp and amp

attachment.php


http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=571184


...and around $4.5k in this one...

Windows Laptop >
Monoprice 12' USB >
Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 >
Cardas SPDIF >
Grant Fidelity TD-11>
Blue Jeans XLR/RCA using Belden 1505F coax with Neutrik XLR's and Canare RCA's>
Audio Research LS2B Mkii (remote capable) with Amperex 6dj8>
Blue Jeans XLR/RCA using Belden 1505F coax with Neutrik XLR's and Canare RCA's
>
(2) Threshold /300 (restored with higher value output caps, upgraded rectifier and bypass caps>
Audio Quest Hyperlitz Midnight on mid and HF drivers and Tara Labs on LF drivers>
Infinity QLS-1 (restored and networks recapped)
>> distributed bass (crossed over at 70Hz)
(2) Dayton SA-240 plate amp
(2) DIY sealed sub, 1.5 cuft, 12" Dayton Titanic Mk III (mono, rear wall)

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=537607

Furman PL Plus conditioner/power strip
Grant Fidelity PC 1.5 on DAC
Pangea AC14SE on preamp and amp

attachment.php



Now, it's very much worth mentioning that the silver bullet for attaining the levels of performance I've experienced with these systems would be the room treatments and all of them are DIY with a materials cost somewhere around $3-400. Neither of these systems is even enjoyable to listen to without them.
 
Last edited:
I am pretty familiar with the MMGs and agree that, with the right source and electronics, they can definitely give you a glimpse into the kind of sound you normally have to pay a lot more to achieve. In fact, I pretty much had the same system, just with MG II speakers, a different CD player and no sub. It really sounded good. :music:

MMG's were a definite game changer for me. They opened so many doors many speakers before them simply could not and showed me things I had only heard others speak of. Paired with a few subs that are well integrated, driven by appropriate electronics and set up properly they can provide a very compelling listening experience. :yes:

They provided me some of those moments you look back on after a few years have passed that make you say "man, that was the stuff that turned me into the irrational freak I am today". :D
 
MMG's were a definite game changer for me. They opened so many doors many speakers before them simply could not and showed me things I had only heard others speak of. Paired with a few subs that are well integrated, driven by appropriate electronics and set up properly they can provide a very compelling listening experience. :yes:

They provided me some of those moments you look back on after a few years have passed that make you say "man, that was the stuff that turned me into the irrational freak I am today". :D

I remember when I got back into the hobby, I had gone thru maybe 7 different sets of speakers, and picked up a pair of MG1.6QR's I hooked them up dropped the needle and out of my mouth came "There it is" the sound I had been looking to find.
Regards,
Jim
 
I remember when I got back into the hobby, I had gone thru maybe 7 different sets of speakers, and picked up a pair of MG1.6QR's I hooked them up dropped the needle and out of my mouth came "There it is" the sound I had been looking to find.
Regards,
Jim
The 1.6QR is one of the speakers that all audiophiles should own at some point in their audio journey. :yes:
 
My $10K system would probably look something like:

Schiit Yggdrasil
Emia autoformer passive volume control
Odyssey Khartago monoblocks
Renaissance Prelude

That leaves about $700 for cables, which sounds right to me.

In reality I could and probably would spend substantially less, but the used gear that catches my eye comes up for sale pretty rarely. Let's just say my goal is to put together the poor man's version of the above system.
 
I gave the secret in your other thread: make friends with AV installers in wealthy neighborhoods and buy their take outs. My current system retailed over $100k yet cost about $11 K and change.
 
My $10K system would probably look something like:

Schiit Yggdrasil
Emia autoformer passive volume control
Odyssey Khartago monoblocks
Renaissance Prelude

That leaves about $700 for cables, which sounds right to me.

In reality I could and probably would spend substantially less, but the used gear that catches my eye comes up for sale pretty rarely. Let's just say my goal is to put together the poor man's version of the above system.
I have to do some research on the Emia. A transformer coupled passive could be interesting.
 
I gave the secret in your other thread: make friends with AV installers in wealthy neighborhoods and buy their take outs. My current system retailed over $100k yet cost about $11 K and change.

That's certainly one way to get one's self home.

I wouldn't imagine that many AV installs feature SE tube amps, for instance, but, if they have what you seek, then more power to you, and full points for ingenuity.
 
Back
Top Bottom