How to route sources with Bi-Amping

[stopkidding]

Hello All,

I am looking to experiment with Bi-amping. I have 2 integrated amplifiers, A Yamaha A-S2100 (with pre-main in and out) phono stage and a Sansui AU-D11 MK2 with no pre-main in/out. I would like to use these two amps to Bi-Amp my speakers.

My CD player, a Yamaha CD-S2000 has XLR and RCA outputs which I can route to each amplifier simultaneously. But how do I that for the turntable so that the signal is received at both Amps? I also use the Front channel Pre-out of my Marantz 1606 NR Receiver to drive the fronts using my Yamaha.

I would like to know the source routing strategy that would allow my sources to be fed to one pre-amp section and the power amp sections of each to drive the speakers.

The Sansui has the usual Tape In/Out controls.

 

[imral3]

To my inexperienced eyes it doesn't appear that you will be able to do it with the equipment you currently have. The Sansui being the issue not having main in/out capability. Having said that, we'll let the more knowledgeable AKers provide their advice and hopefully it can be done.

 

[toddalin]

Run all of your sources into the Yamaha and select them there.

Remove the pre-out/amp-in jumpers.

Plug the Yamaha Pre-out to the electronic crossover's input.

If the Yamaha has more power than the Sansui, run the low frequencies from the electronic crossover into the Yamaha's amp-in connection and use this amp to run your woofers.

Run the high frequencies to the Sansui's tape-in and let the Sansui power the tweeters. Between the electronic crossover and volume control on the Sansui, you will adjust the woofer/tweeter balance.

If the Sansui has more power than the Yamaha, reverse the above so that the more powerful amp is on the woofers.

 

[Alobar]

You may need a preamp, the output of which will feed your active crossover equipment, ahd from there you could use an aux input of the LF and HF integrated amplifiers. I'm not sure if you can separate your Yamaha to perform both functions of the preamp and one of the power amps at the same time .

 

[RTally]

Run all of your sources into the Yamaha and select them there.

Remove the pre-out/amp-in jumpers.

Plug the Yamaha Pre-out to the electronic crossover's input.

If the Yamaha has more power than the Sansui, run the low frequencies from the electronic crossover into the Yamaha's amp-in connection and use this amp to run your woofers.

Run the high frequencies to the Sansui's tape-in and let the Sansui power the tweeters. Between the electronic crossover and volume control on the Sansui, you will adjust the woofer/tweeter balance.

If the Sansui has more power than the Yamaha, reverse the above so that the more powerful amp is on the woofers.

^^^^ This. If you plan on using the speakers' built-in passive crossovers instead of an active crossover, just omit the active crossover and wire the Yamaha pre-out to the Sansui using a Y-patch cable with the other end of the Y-cable plugged into the amp-in on the Yamaha.

 

[stopkidding]

Thanks for the "inputs". The Yamaha is rated at 90W at 8ohms, the Sansui at 130W at 8ohms.

I am only looking to use the bi-amping using the speakers passive crossovers. So the active cross over is ruled out.

So Looks like here is what I have to do
1) Run all sources to the Yamaha - Select sources here, including the Phono
2) Connect Yamaha Pre-Out to Sansui Tape In.
3) Connect Sansui to Either LF or HF Terminals of the speaker (Even though the Sansui has more power, its high frequencies are sublime, but I can switch around and experiment)
4) Connect the Yamaha speaker outputs to the remaining speaker terminals.

Just to add, the Yamaha has a fully balanced (floating) Pre and power amplifier sections; The Sansui power amp is balanced (floating). Just want to make sure I am not going to be inadvertently grounding the terminals in this setup and blow up the amps.

 

[stopkidding]

^^^^ This. If you plan on using the speakers' built-in passive crossovers instead of an active crossover, just omit the active crossover and wire the Yamaha pre-out to the Sansui using a Y-patch cable with the other end of the Y-cable plugged into the amp-in on the Yamaha.

There are no jumpers separating the Pre and Main sections on the Yamaha. I think you get the Pre-Out for free when you are using any of the sources. Only using the MAIN Direct disables the Pre-amp and tone controls.

https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/5/332925/web_VAA8450_A-S2100_om_U_EnFr_D0.pdf

 

[toddalin]

Do your speaker crossovers have separate inputs for the woofers and tweeters that are jumpered together where you remove the jumper to separate them? This would be a must.

 

[stopkidding]

Do your speaker crossovers have separate inputs for the woofers and tweeters that are jumpered together where you remove the jumper to separate them? This would be a must.

yes they do, I already run them is a bi-wire setup. I have the Polk LSi15.

 

[imral3]

To sum it all up, I obviously don't know what I'm talking about!

 

[stopkidding]

Hey don't fret, that pretty much sums up this hobby for most of us

 

[stopkidding]

So first part of the set up is done. Currently I have all the sources running through the Yamaha with pre-out running to the tape in of the Sansui. Currently I have the speakers connected to Sansui until I have another pair of speaker cables delivered.

My next question: currently I have to set levels at both volume controls to get acceptable listening levels at the speakers. Which is better to crank up? The volume level at the Yamaha (acting as Pre) or at the Sansui (acting as an integrated)? Is there any scenario where I can overload the tape in at the Sansui?

 

[stopkidding]

The other option is running all the sources to the Sansui and then use tape out to feed into the Main direct of the Yamaha which makes it a pure power Amp. Then I can control volume using Sansui for both amplifiers....

 

[toddalin]

The other option is running all the sources to the Sansui and then use tape out to feed into the Main direct of the Yamaha which makes it a pure power Amp. Then I can control volume using Sansui for both amplifiers....

No,

If you use the tape out of the Sansui, and power amp-in on the Yamaha you will have no volume control on the speakers tied to the Yamaha. You are just feeding the Yamaha the line level and it could get quite loud. You would need to use one of the Yamaha's inputs and deal with two separate volume controls every time you wanted to change the volume.

 

[stopkidding]

The other option is running all the sources to the Sansui and then use tape out to feed into the Main direct of the Yamaha which makes it a pure power Amp. Then I can control volume using Sansui for both amplifiers....

Success! Except I am using the Line in on the Yamaha instead of the Main Direct input (it had grounding hum). I went ahead and used some older blue jeans bare terminated wire and the whole set up sounds fantastic. The Sansui is feeding the HF and the Yamaha the LFs. Each have their own volume controls. Instantly I can tell there is a whole lot of headroom to drive the speakers louder. And the Polk LSi15 sound better when there is a lot of power!

Once I have another pair of spade terminated cables, I will swap the Sansui for LF and Yamaha for HF.

Sounds like an amazing combo, My YamSui!!

 

[stopkidding]

No,

If you use the tape out of the Sansui, and power amp-in on the Yamaha you will have no volume control on the speakers tied to the Yamaha. You are just feeding the Yamaha the line level and it could get quite loud. You would need to use one of the Yamaha's inputs and deal with two separate volume controls every time you wanted to change the volume.

Good point. That's exactly what I did. Tape out to Line In! Works great!