HT Set Up Questions

Understood on the power draw on the previous two posts. More power and not max it out is my personal preference rather than underpowering and squeezing every last drop . For example, on the living room audio system, when I got the ADR speakers, the old Marantz 2220b does drive them, but it has to work a lot harder. So I'm bumping it up with a Marantz 2285b, thank you Bartertown! :D

So two new developments just since last night.
Speaking of Bartertown, while poking around before I fell asleep, I found this, and asked about it before doing research to discover that it seems to date from about 5 years ago
Onkyo Integra DTR-8.2 surround receiver-$200 plus shipping from Boston.

Then this morning, my contractor who knew I found these speakers dropped off a Yamaha RV-701, with no remote. He said found it on a job site in an abandoned mansion, he had it storage and I can have it free. He's honest, but it's very dusty and he smokes. I have cans of air to blow out the dust. No idea if it works, but from the very brief info I found, it appears to be a good quality 5.1 AVR about 10 years old. Probably can find a remote for about $40, but I know from personal experience you SHOULD look a gift horse in the mouth. We said no thanks on the horse, but what about this?

One of the benefits of AK, is people WILL tell you what they think. Remember it needs to be the hub of the system, not just a part that will "work". So opinions please?

Not to get into a war of semantics, but if there is enough power to fullfill the operational demands, then it is not an "underpowered" situation; despite Internet lore.

As far as specific units for the most part they all do mostly the same things. The only ones I'd specifically steer clear of are the Onkyos from several years ago where they had a bunch of networking and HDMI failures. I don't know the specific vintage/suspect years but there are plenty of anecdotes to be found.

Personally, unless it was a fairly minimalist system, I'd get something with HDMI. Makes source routing and cabling easier. As well, if there are others using the system, single point source selection usually leads to less calls for help for things out of sync. I have an older Yamaha RX-V1700 that has HDMI and a newer, but still several years old Marantz AV-7005 where I also use HDMI. Haven't had any problems with HDMI function (other than not a good enough HDMI cable for a 35ft run at 1080p with Deep Color turned on).

The big gotcha comes in when/if you start moving to 4k. Current 4k stuff generally uses HDCP v2.2 which is not fully backward compatible with the earlier version of HDCP used in gear up until fairly recently. Bear in mind HDCP is not HDMI. They work together, but they are different matters entirely.
 
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The onkyo hdmi failures were 2008-2012, pioneer is now owned by onkyo, and they had a dsp chip failure in that time frame that was worse than the onkyo hdmi issue. The onkyo issue could be fixed with a recap. The pioneer issue needed to go back to pioneer, and they pulled a fast one on me (told me to reset the AVR first, cleared the error code, then asked for a picture of the error code).
 
The onkyo hdmi failures were 2008-2012, pioneer is now owned by onkyo, and they had a dsp chip failure in that time frame that was worse than the onkyo hdmi issue. The onkyo issue could be fixed with a recap. The pioneer issue needed to go back to pioneer, and they pulled a fast one on me (told me to reset the AVR first, cleared the error code, then asked for a picture of the error code).

If you still have the Pio AVR, Onkyo/Pioneer has in place return/repair/replacement or discount on gear programs scheduled to run through the end of 2018. My understanding is that a receipt from an authorized dealer is no longer required, but a pic of the UE-22 error display AND one of the unit's back plate showing its serial number is. I'm currently supervising such a return of one of these units (SC-68) and can let you know how it turns out if you're still interested.
 
...dropped off a Yamaha RV-701, with no remote...

Can't do better than free. The Yamaha is worthless as a keeper, but it is PERFECT as a unit for "proof of concept." In other words, go get a spool of 14 ga. speaker wire at Home Depot or the like, place the speakers on boxes/chairs/tables, wire them up, connect a source (DVD player or movie streamer) and fire things up. You'll be able to tell whether HT is for you or not. If not, no harm done other than a few bucks for speaker wire and a bit of wasted time. If yes, you go on the hunt for a keeper AVR. In either event, you thank the contractor and send him packing with the stinky POS Yammy. Good luck.
 
HDMI is needed for one button control of the system. It's only through HDMI* that I can turn on the system with my Direct TV remote and the TV and receiver also turn on. Without HDMI, and the receiver as the focal point of the system, one needs to turn on the receiver separately, and that's a pain in the tuchus for lazy couch potatoes like me.

*and CEC, which is passed through HDMI
 
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If you still have the Pio AVR, Onkyo/Pioneer has in place return/repair/replacement or discount on gear programs scheduled to run through the end of 2018. My understanding is that a receipt from an authorized dealer is no longer required, but a pic of the UE-22 error display AND one of the unit's back plate showing its serial number is. I'm currently supervising such a return of one of these units (SC-68) and can let you know how it turns out if you're still interested.

Yes I know, that's exactly what I mentioned. They told me to try resetting the AVR first, which cleared my UE22 error. Then they asked me for a pic of the UE22 error, it wasn't there. See what I meant by they pulled a fast one on me? I haven't gotten the error back since, but I still have all the other symptoms of it.
 
I managed a one button remote solution by implementing a URC programmable remote. It works like a charm so now I don't have to rely on HDMI for control of my system. Besides, I have to build in some delay between component power up cycles because my MX135 absolutely requires it.
 
There are always workaround, usually at the expense of added complexity somewhere along the line. But, it really depends on the scope of system and integration.

I don't rely on CEC for power sequencing either as I don't necessarily always want the TV to power up or whatever just because I turned on the BD player. Instead using a Harmony Hub system because it controls lighting sequence though Philips Hue tie in and with some other stuff too (Alexa voice control, for another one) besides the components.

From the Harmony smart phone app. This is for upstairs, a simple selection in the menu changes the app link to run the system in the basement with its own unique menus and options.

Screenshot_2017-12-20-15-40-20.png
 
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Yes I know, that's exactly what I mentioned. They told me to try resetting the AVR first, which cleared my UE22 error. Then they asked me for a pic of the UE22 error, it wasn't there. See what I meant by they pulled a fast one on me? I haven't gotten the error back since, but I still have all the other symptoms of it.

So pull your own fast one. You just need a pic of a display showing a UE22, right? Seems like a soluble problem...
 
The freebie proof of concept idea is really great; a big spool of 14 awg is coming from Amazon on Friday to play with. Since it won't be a permanent solution, I can just get off my duff and turn it on and off. There are a bunch of RCA cables somewhere in the garage, so I'll go excavating again tomorrow; who knows what will turn up this time. If it's a completely boxed AVR I'll be shocked, but each time I go digging out there I find something else.

Now that I really look at it, from the way inputs are labeled the contractor's unit is pretty old, and there's some rust on the bottom of the back plate. I turned it on plugged into a GFCI outlet in case it failed the smoke test, but it powers on. Now that I've looked at it a bit I understand more of what you're talking about above.

The 4k issue whoareu99 mentions will be an issue with a keeper AVR because the eventual replacement TV will likely be 4k. No problem for now since I'm just going to "Play with HT". If it's a yes, then I'll get serious shopping. For now I'll play.

I printed the manual from the Yamaha site. Will this be clear enough for a noob or should I find something else? For instance, when this thing was built, there was no Roku,and I don't know where to plug it in.
 
The freebie proof of concept idea is really great; a big spool of 14 awg is coming from Amazon on Friday to play with. Since it won't be a permanent solution, I can just get off my duff and turn it on and off. There are a bunch of RCA cables somewhere in the garage, so I'll go excavating again tomorrow; who knows what will turn up this time. If it's a completely boxed AVR I'll be shocked, but each time I go digging out there I find something else.

Now that I really look at it, from the way inputs are labeled the contractor's unit is pretty old, and there's some rust on the bottom of the back plate. I turned it on plugged into a GFCI outlet in case it failed the smoke test, but it powers on. Now that I've looked at it a bit I understand more of what you're talking about above.

The 4k issue whoareu99 mentions will be an issue with a keeper AVR because the eventual replacement TV will likely be 4k. No problem for now since I'm just going to "Play with HT". If it's a yes, then I'll get serious shopping. For now I'll play.

I printed the manual from the Yamaha site. Will this be clear enough for a noob or should I find something else? For instance, when this thing was built, there was no Roku,and I don't know where to plug it in.

Start with the basics to check out the Yammy. From CD player's analog outputs (RCA female white (L) and red (R) labeled "Audio Out") to CD input on the AVR ("Audio In" white and red females again). Put in a CD and hit the "Play" button. Set the AVR's input source to CD, volume to minimum, and plug in a set of headphones. Gradually turn the volume up until either the music plays or the AVR smokes or the volume reaches -20db with no sound, whichever comes first. If it's raining beautiful notes, turn your volume all the way down, shut everything down, and unplug the headphones. Then wire up a pair of (sacrificial) speakers, fire up the player and the AVR, and slowly turn up the volume as before. Assuming your speakers are now working, place the unit's surround mode into Yammy's version of all-channel stereo. Then being careful to shut things down for each change, test each pair of speaker outputs (side surrounds, back surrounds, and the single-speaker center). Once all the outputs test good with one set of speakers, go ahead and connect up all the speakers you want to use for your HT (fronts, center, surround (side and/or backs)). Try the all-channel stereo again with a CD playing. If all is OK, then you're ready for the next step: video to the TV with audio to the AVR. Chore for a different day.
 
Excellent instructions awillia6, thank you.
Is it ok if the sacrificial speakers are old computer speakers? there are several sets in the garage
 
Most computer speakers are internally amplified and of indeterminate (i.e. I don't know) impedance, so I'd avoid trying them. If you have a voltmeter, set it for DC Volts, set AVR volume to minimum or around -60 to -80db and measure the DC offset voltage between each +ve and -ve pair of speaker jacks (for example, measure between Front L red jack and Front L black jack, then measure between Front R red jack and Front R black jack). If you see any voltage readings (positive or negative doesn't matter) of greater than about 50mV, do NOT connect speakers to the Yammy. Check back here instead.
 
Haha, you've got one that isn't the first item when UE22 is searched in google? Let me know!

If it were me in your situation, I would search out busy HT forums where Pioneer users of gear sufficiently similar to yours tend to congregate (not here, unfortunately). I would then present those users, en masse or individually, with my sad tale of woe. I can just about guarantee you that at least one of those good gentlemen will take pity on you and suggest some way to extricate you from your quandary. Good luck.
 
Excellent instructions awillia6, thank you.

I see the Yammy is ancient and pretty lightweight. I wouldn't plan on running those 6-ohm Pios very loud or very long with that 8-ohm AVR. Also, connectivity and surround modes might be a bit of an issue as the unit doesn't have much in the way of modern decodes, input varieties, or setup flexibility. I guess the old saying is true after all: you get what you pay for. Just kidding, the unit should be adequate for its intended proofing duty. Oh, and since your sub has high-level inputs (can extract the low frequency signal it will amplify directly from your Front L/R speaker cables, you should be able to hook up the Front B speakers to the sub and get that going as well. With a bit of finagling, you'll have a full 5.1 configuration to play around with. Should be fun.
 
Well...you guys are going to laugh at me. After digging through the garage for a couple of hours I found some beat up speakers, and my old Simpson 260 which needs a repair, and some other equipment that needs help (DH used to do all this stuff but let it go when he got sick, and my skills got rusty over 25+ years of not using them). And I thought, yeah it might be fun to practice my old troubleshooting skills, and then I thought FGI, I don't want to deal with all that testing crap on a stinky rusty 10 year old AVR. The longer it was plugged in, the smellier it got. And I took into account what whoaru99 said about 4k compatibility, read some articles about it, and thought about what the skipper said about old technology and remotes (and I LIKE remotes). See, I listen to you :D

So I went to B&H, Accessories4Less and Crutchfield, did some searches on HDCP 2.2 AVRs, which led me over to Amazon for reviews, and a bargain. And I bought a new Sony with a bunch of features for 200 bucks.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BV7SO8U/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
If it's not good enough, I can send it back. It looks like set-up will be easy and if I decide HT isn't for me after all, it can run the speaker system for music listening. I don't need top of the line because of my hearing, and the speakers aren't top quality either.

I also got an Echo Dot that connects to the unit via bluetooth and will run the Amazon music library from my phone, or I can access it through wifi. The dot also connects to my Nest thermostat I recently installed. The speakers will be set it up in the semi-circle array to see how I like it for a while.

The AVR will be here Friday so I can play with it all weekend. I might even call one of my old electrician buddies to see if he wants to help set it up with me. After we're done, he'll want one of these too :D
 
I wish I would have looked at the detail of that Yamaha 701 earlier.

Personally, I strongly suggest reconsideration. Not because of size, weight, power, etc., but because it is not just old, it is antiquated by surround sound standards and connectivity. IMO, it is likely only to leave a bad taste in your mouth about surround sound. The unit has no digital inputs and no discrete decoding (no Dolby Digital). Dolby Digital has been pretty much standard feature for 20 years, maybe more, and is a huge improvement over the old Dolby Surround and old Dolby Pro Logic version on that unit.

Major PASS on that unit.
 
ok, I suspect I made a bad decision on the Sony based on the crickets here. It hasn't arrived yet and is easy to return. I'm ALWAYS willing to admit I made a mistake, especially if I can learn from it, fix it before it gets too deep, and doesn't cost a fortune. So feel free to tell me why you'd do it differently; I'm listening to learn.

If you're willing and have the time, please pick a model you think would work for me, new or used that's EASY to set up (probably with one of those microphone calibration things), meets the HDCP 2.2 4k requirements. bluetooth. Reasonably priced, under $500. Shipped and no tax is even better. FYI, I'm an Android user, so no iPhone compatibility needed, and no multi-location speakers needed.

I genuinely hope to hear from awllia6, whoaru99, Yamaki, and The Skipper. Anyone else is absolutely welcome of course.
And please accept my grateful thanks. Some of these are post DH lessons.

So go ahead, spend my money :)
 
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